Twisting wires

[mulllet]

Why do some people insist on twisting conductors before applying wire nut.The instructions on the box or bag do not mention twisting.As a matter of fact the instructions on a bag of T&B wirenuts specifically state do not pretwist wires.
I have been doing electrical work for 30 years and have used both methods but settled on not twisting.
I have also removed many a wire nut and seen many botched attempts at twisting which led to faulty connections.
I am usually one to try and follow manufacturer instructions.And for troubleshooting, repair and add on, the twisted wires are far more aggravating.
Either method requires attention to detail.

 

[charlie]

Re: Twisting wires

Old habits die hard. In the old days when all connections required a solder pot and the connections were fluxed, dipped, and taped, they had to be mechanically sound before soldering. 110.14(B), "Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered." Since old guys teach new guys, the idea of twisting has been passed down and it is difficult to convince the new guys that twisting is wrong since they were taught wrong.

You are right, all it takes is some reading and following the manufacturer's directions.

 

[rattus]

Re: Twisting wires

I was going to ask if solder is ever used in the trade today.

 

[iwire]

Re: Twisting wires

Originally posted by mulllet:
Why do some people insist on twisting conductors before applying wire nut.The instructions on the box or bag do not mention twisting.As a matter of fact the instructions on a bag of T&B wirenuts specifically state do not pretwist wires.

I take exception to that, the wire nut instructions say no PRE-twisting, they do not say no twisting necessary.

The directions I have read ask for two visible twists in sight outside of the wire nut.

Here are the instructions from a box of Ideal wire nuts

1)Turn off Power

2)Strip wires

3)Align any frayed strands

4)Pretwisting unnecessary. Hold stripped wires together with ends even. Lead stranded wires slightly

5)Push wire into connector and screw on until two twists are visible in wire.

If you do it as the instruction require if the wire nut is removed the wires stay together.

Bob

 

[hurk27]

Re: Twisting wires

I wan't to add to what Bob has said.
We had a hard time getting the guys to turn the wire nut hard enough to twist the wires with the wire nut so we make them pre-twist to make sure the connection is good. if the wire nut is just run on the straight wire and not turned until the wires twist, the connection will fail because the contact area between each wire can corrode and loose connection over time. It is the intention to have the wire twisted under the wire nut by the manufacture but many electricians will not turn the wire nut that far. And with 12awg and 10awg it is almost imposable to do this.

[ December 27, 2004, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]

 

[charlie]

Re: Twisting wires

Wayne, since you are saying specifically "Wire Nuts" and that is Ideal's trade name, I used a wrench in the end of the handle of my screwdriver to get them tight enough. I wonder if Ideal still makes that type of wrench? When I was in the trade, I required my guys to use the wrench to be sure the Wire Nuts were tight enough.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: Twisting wires

Rattus,

I was going to ask if solder is ever used in the trade today.

I keep a simple 65 watt iron and acid core solder as a normal truck tool. I do enough work in existing dwellings with Knob & Tube still in service that, on occasion, the best solution to the wiring problem is to make a soldered Western Union splice.

Soldering Iron? . . .Don't leave home without it!

I also include a roll or two of rubber splice tape and a roll of friction tape.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: Twisting wires

Charlie,

Is this what you were thinking of?

Ideal Industries, Inc., Item ID: 30-333
Description: Screwdriver Wire Connector Wrench, 3/16 Inch Diameter x 6 Inch Long Shank (Electrician's Style)

I think it's a little hard to see, but there is a recess in the "palm-end" of the driver grip that a wire-nut? will slip into, permitting the grip to be used to turn the nut.

 

[charlie]

Re: Twisting wires

Yep, Al, I have one in my pouch (I know, I have been out of the trade for 25 years but I still have my tools). They used to have this one and a shorter with larger size standard bit. I had a lot of problems with that one since I used it for locknuts and ruined several of the wrenches. I started using a standard screwdriver instead of the one with the wrench for that size.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: Twisting wires

This has an Ideal Industries part # HSC-1. I switched to the B-CAP? B1 & B2 nuts that include this one-size-fits-all driver chuck in every bag of nuts.

The chuck slips into my battery driver tool.

 

[charlie]

Re: Twisting wires

Cool . . . UH . . . Sweet

 

[rattus]

Re: Twisting wires

Al, did you say acid core? I would think that rosin core should be used because the acid residue leads to corrosion.

 

[mulllet]

Re: Twisting wires

Here is a url with pictures.
http://www.gulfnet.com/user_pages/kdalton1/connectors/connectors.html

I'll learn to put pictures on message board later.

 

[roger]

Re: Twisting wires

Mulllet, is your name refering to the roe type or haircut?

Roger

 

[mulllet]

Re: Twisting wires

Definately the roe type.
I don't have enough hair for the doo.

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/4492/Taylor/county/outdoors/mroe.html

The three l's are another story.

 

[roger]

Re: Twisting wires

I'm a red roe person myself, (finished the gizzards last week) got a dozen or so in the freezer, I wasn't going to ask about the three I's.

Roger

[ December 27, 2004, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Twisting wires

If i twist the wires first i know i have a good connection.If i rely on the wire nut to do this how will i be sure it was good enough ? I am a twister .How often do we find bad connections because they didnt twist with the wire nut ?How often was there a bad connection when they were pretwisted ?I for one can't afford even 1 bad connection.

 

[roger]

Re: Twisting wires

Jim, I'm a pretwister too, guess it's as Charlie said, old habits are hard to break.

Roger

 

[mulllet]

Re: Twisting wires

Please understand I am not against twisting, I believe either method is correct if done properly. But I have have had people tell me it is a must when the instructions say otherwise.
I allways check to make sure the wires are all secure and have had no problems.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Twisting wires

Its a must if your working under me.That's because i am the likely person to be doing the repair and it shows on my track record.From the standpoint of making money on service calls i wish nobody else took the time to twist.Does anyone feel that pretwisting will make a poor connection ? Or do they simply want to save that extra time.