Twisting wires

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mulllet

Member
Re: Twisting wires

Thanks ED!
You have shown what I have been trying to get across. If done properly not twisting can make a proper connection. The secret to any connection is to do it right no matter the tecnique.
I found this forum while searching for a place to get answers and insight on matters that I consider important. It seems that the twisting issue is a passionate one.
I have been in the trade for 30 years, mostly industrial. Many jobs I've worked on did'nt even allow wire nuts or butt splices because of quality control issues.
I do not consider myself an amature but I still don't clame to know everything and would gladly change my style for higher quality even if it takes a little longer to perform.
 
M

mulllet

Member
Re: Twisting wires

My reference to the agravation of pretwisted wires comes more from the max number of conductors being joined.I have removed wirenuts that I have applied and the twist is uniform.
The wires lay perfectly compressed with a slight twist and all the ends even.With maximum surface area of conductors touching.And more than once I have removed wirenuts from the max number of conductors that have been pretwisted improperly and found more of a knot or wad with some wires leading some lagging.And sometimes the outside wires twisted to extreme around inside wires twisted very little.Like I expressed in an earlier post, no matter which method it's all about doing it right.If the wires are pretwisted and cut to length to make the ends even it creates a sharp flare that if not manicured with another ring of the pliers seems to inhibit proper wirenut application.It seems that improper connections are usually made by greenhorns or those who do not take pride in a skill that deserves the utmost attention to quality.
 
M

mulllet

Member
Re: Twisting wires

Here are 5 #12's with wirenut removed.No pretwist was used.Notice it looks like a larger conductor with a factory twist.Granted the wires will not stay together with wirenut removed.But why would they need to.
twist.jpg
 
B

bthielen

Guest
Re: Twisting wires

One of the reasons that I have usually incorporated pretwisting is because then I can visually see that all wires involved have been securely twisted and properly stripped of their insulation before I install the wirenut. It seems that trying to wirenut 3, 4, or more wires together, can be a little cumbersome and getting all of them fully and equally inserted in the wirenut can be a challenge sometimes. All too often there's that one stubborn wire that wants to walk out of the wirenut while twisting.

Bob
 
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Re: Twisting wires

Originally posted by allenwayne:
Ever have a 6 gang and there is a problem somewhere and you have to undo the wirenut and poof all the wires go in every possible direction.
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That means that the connection wasn't made properly in the first place.

The splice should look like Ed's or Mullet's when the connector is removed.
 
J

jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Twisting wires

"Here are 5 #12's with wirenut removed.No pretwist was used.Notice it looks like a larger conductor with a factory twist.Granted the wires will not stay together with wirenut removed.But why would they need to."
I hope you never have multi wire circuits.What do you think happens if they come apart on a neutral.It is scary to take a wire nut off of neutrals on multiwire.One would need to undo all hott wires first.We insist on twisting at my company.I tested this idea and they all failed to twist enough to stay together with nut removed.But to you non pretwisters ,thanks for all the service calls :D ;)
 
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Re: Twisting wires

Originally posted by jimwalker:
I hope you never have multi wire circuits.What do you think happens if they come apart on a neutral.It is scary to take a wire nut off of neutrals on multiwire.One would need to undo all hott wires first.We insist on twisting at my company.I tested this idea and they all failed to twist enough to stay together with nut removed.But to you non pretwisters ,thanks for all the service calls :D ;)
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Jim,


You never cease to amaze me with ridiculous things things that you post here.

Why on earth are you taking apart neutrals on a live multiwire circuit?

You aren't getting service calls from "non-pretwisters;" you're getting them from hacks who can't make a basic connection.

Don't you realize there are people who are coming up in the trade who might read that and think it's an acceptable practice to take a wire connector off of a live neutral?
 
J

jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Twisting wires

And if they were twisted as you claim where would be the problem ? As to why i would take one off ,gee i don't know maybe to add a wire .Sadly the new kids are getting taught not to pretwist.So when that nut is not as tight as needed to twist the wires then we can deal with it later.

[ February 24, 2005, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
H

hardworkingstiff

Senior Member
Location
Wilmington, NC
Re: Twisting wires

Back when I wired houses (70's) and buildings I used a lot of solid wire. I twist the solids wires together (making sure no conductor wound up in the middle of a group), then cut them off at the tip so all of them are the same length and the wire nut will bite into all conductors.

For the last 20+ years, I've been using mostly stranded wire. With stranded wire I absolutley DO NOT twist. I make sure all of the ends of the wires are EXACTLY the same length, then let the wire nut do the twisting. When I finish the connection, I hold the wirenut in one hand and individually pull each wire to make sure it is not loose in the wirenut.

So far, so good.
 
K

kentirwin

Senior Member
Location
Norfolk, VA
Re: Twisting wires

I agree with the above. I have always pre-twisted solid conductors. Depending on the wirenut to do it simply doesn't get it done. Stranded wire on the other hand I generally let the wirenut do it until I get into the #8 & #6 range. Having done quite a bit of commercial and industrial service work, I've had to go behind the installation electrician quite a bit and have dealt quite a bit with poor connections on hot circuits. Even today's laws permit working hot in certain situations like lighting, industrial processes, life safety systems, etc. Connections made with solid conductors almost always come apart when the wirenut comes off if they weren't pretwisted.
 
aelectricalman

aelectricalman

Senior Member
Location
KY
Re: Twisting wires

Call me stupid, but I could not imagine not pretwisting my wires before adding a wire nut. To me it is an insurance policy.
 
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Re: Twisting wires

Originally posted by jimwalker:
And if they were twisted as you claim where would be the problem ? As to why i would take one off ,gee i don't know maybe to add a wire .
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Oh, thanks for clearing that up. Until you said that, I had no idea why you would take a wire nut off of a splice. :roll:

I asked why you are taking apart a neutral on multiwire circuit live. That's just plain stupid and dangerous.


Sadly the new kids are getting taught not to pretwist.So when that nut is not as tight as needed to twist the wires then we can deal with it later.
Click to expand...
No, what's sad is that proper connections are not being taught, period. Pretwisting is one method but I maintain that a good connection can be made without it.
 
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