Two panels off one meter in condo

[mk23169]

I am a consumer trying to run power from my condos meter to my parking spot for EV Charging. I've had 4 electricians come in and two say it's to code and two say it isn't. I can't get a straight answer.

The meter is in the middle of this bank "B3." Can a sub panel be placed off that meter with 40-50amps?

Picture is attached. Thanks for the help!

Mike

 

[George Stolz]

I don't see a code problem, but it will likely be a physical problem in terms of finding a tandem breaker that will function in that tiny metermain, and finding a conduit route out of it.

 

[electrofelon]

Assuming the combined load doesn't exceed the rating of the meter socket and breaker, I would just bug on the new feeder to the existing one. You may be able to bump that breaker up to 125 if it's not already.

 

[kwired]

Presuming you have a 100 amp feeder breaker adjacent to the meter in question - there is no limit to how many times you can split off that feeder to a 100 amp rated device with 100 amp rated conductors.

If you want to supply only a 40 or 50 amp circuit, you can use feeder taps, but there are limitations on how you can do those, for the most part there is a 10 foot tap rule and a 25 foot tap rule, and an outside feeder tap- each with it's own requirements.

Whether the supply can handle the added load(s) is a different issue that could be a problem for you though.

 

[GerryB]

I am a consumer trying to run power from my condos meter to my parking spot for EV Charging. I've had 4 electricians come in and two say it's to code and two say it isn't. I can't get a straight answer.

The meter is in the middle of this bank "B3." Can a sub panel be placed off that meter with 40-50amps?

Picture is attached. Thanks for the help!

Mike

Condos I've worked in always require the blessing of the association, maybe they have an idea or it has come up before. Also you mentioned "parking spot", so no garage? If you need to run underground to the parking lot that's a whole other concern. Also the utility has many guidelines and they might not allow it. Probably logistically too difficult to run from the panel in your unit is why you are looking at the meter bank? Maybe the condo will be nice and install some for the whole complex:happyno:. Good luck.

 

[kwired]

Condos I've worked in always require the blessing of the association, maybe they have an idea or it has come up before. Also you mentioned "parking spot", so no garage? If you need to run underground to the parking lot that's a whole other concern. Also the utility has many guidelines and they might not allow it. Probably logistically too difficult to run from the panel in your unit is why you are looking at the meter bank? Maybe the condo will be nice and install some for the whole complex:happyno:. Good luck.

Utility usually don't care what you do in the compartment(s) that contain the breakers - tap all you want to those conductors whatever you use will be registered on the meter. It is the compartment containing the meter they are particular about, and why they put a seal on each meter compartment cover. Should you tap onto something in there, that usage may not be registered on the meter. Usually a seal on main lugs compartment also for same reasons - ahead of metering.

 

[GerryB]

Utility usually don't care what you do in the compartment(s) that contain the breakers - tap all you want to those conductors whatever you use will be registered on the meter. It is the compartment containing the meter they are particular about, and why they put a seal on each meter compartment cover. Should you tap onto something in there, that usage may not be registered on the meter. Usually a seal on main lugs compartment also for same reasons - ahead of metering.

Yeah they definitely don't want metered and unmetered wires together. I had a call years ago with the utility and property owner for theft of service. Meter bank just like that. One tenant meter was shut off, so someone paralleled #12's from one breaker to theirs. Free electricity Well, not free to the other guy.

 

[mk23169]

Presuming you have a 100 amp feeder breaker adjacent to the meter in question - there is no limit to how many times you can split off that feeder to a 100 amp rated device with 100 amp rated conductors.

If you want to supply only a 40 or 50 amp circuit, you can use feeder taps, but there are limitations on how you can do those, for the most part there is a 10 foot tap rule and a 25 foot tap rule, and an outside feeder tap- each with it's own requirements.

Whether the supply can handle the added load(s) is a different issue that could be a problem for you though.

You are correct it's a 100 amp feeder breaker, and I'm looking to pull about 50 amps off of it.

I did a load test in the apartment and turned everything on and barely used 50 amps. If the feeder tap is adjacent to the meters 5-10 ft away, what is the limitation?

Thanks!

 

[mk23169]

Yeah they definitely don't want metered and unmetered wires together. I had a call years ago with the utility and property owner for theft of service. Meter bank just like that. One tenant meter was shut off, so someone paralleled #12's from one breaker to theirs. Free electricity Well, not free to the other guy.

You can take a feeder off of that 100 amp breaker without touching the meter though, correct?

What is required to increase that breaker to say 125-150 amps?

 

[retirede]

You can take a feeder off of that 100 amp breaker without touching the meter though, correct?

What is required to increase that breaker to say 125-150 amps?

You should call one of the 2 electricians back who did not say “it’s not code”. He/she should be able to answer any questions and tell you what it will cost.

 

[Jamesco]

I am a consumer trying to run power from my condos meter to my parking spot for EV Charging. I've had 4 electricians come in and two say it's to code and two say it isn't. I can't get a straight answer.

The meter is in the middle of this bank "B3." Can a sub panel be placed off that meter with 40-50amps?

Picture is attached. Thanks for the help!

Mike

240V? Or 120V? Just a guess 120V.... 30 or 40 amps at 120V would be quite an unbalanced load to connect to the 100 amp service. Especially when you said in a post you checked the load and found with everything turned on in your place you measured an average connected load of 50 amps. (Apply, The what if factor.)
80% of 100 amps (The 100 amp breaker at the meter) = 80 amps.

I assume you have talked with the super of the building and received his/her OK.

Using one of the tap rules, as kwired mentioned in his post, you could set a small breaker panel in the same equipment room as the meter. The breaker sized to protect the branch circuit wiring for the car charger. Again you would need to get permission from the building super. I would recommend you get it in writing. The panel you choose would need to have a lockable front cover and the front of the panel clearly labeled something like "Tenant power B3 only" so some electrician down the road doesn't take it for House power and connect something else off the panel. All you really need will be a 2 circuit panel and 2 pole(? assuming 240V charger) breaker, sized to meet NEC as well as the AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) (City Electrical Inspection Department).

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't see how you would add 50 amps to that panel when it seems to have a 90 or 100 amp breaker. I doubt the calculation will work in your favor.

 

[MyCleveland]

I don't see how you would add 50 amps to that panel when it seems to have a 90 or 100 amp breaker. I doubt the calculation will work in your favor.:thumbsup:

No way you can get that size load added to your service. NEC rules where followed to get it that small. Are you sure it is 240 and not 120/208-1P ?
12 100A meters are a lot in one stack line-up at 240.

If it is 240, you probably have less than 100amps of wire to start with...again NEC rules in play.

If you can show the entire stack line-up, and its main has some capacity left over... you could ADD another meter section, and feed out from there. Consult condo board, stack provision would possibly allow other members to do the same and make sure utility will allow additional meters for this application.

 

[mk23169]

No way you can get that size load added to your service. NEC rules where followed to get it that small. Are you sure it is 240 and not 120/208-1P ?
12 100A meters are a lot in one stack line-up at 240.

If it is 240, you probably have less than 100amps of wire to start with...again NEC rules in play.

If you can show the entire stack line-up, and its main has some capacity left over... you could ADD another meter section, and feed out from there. Consult condo board, stack provision would possibly allow other members to do the same and make sure utility will allow additional meters for this application.

It's 120/208 3 phase.

 

[kwired]

I don't see how you would add 50 amps to that panel when it seems to have a 90 or 100 amp breaker. I doubt the calculation will work in your favor.

No way you can get that size load added to your service. NEC rules where followed to get it that small. Are you sure it is 240 and not 120/208-1P ?
12 100A meters are a lot in one stack line-up at 240.

If it is 240, you probably have less than 100amps of wire to start with...again NEC rules in play.

If you can show the entire stack line-up, and its main has some capacity left over... you could ADD another meter section, and feed out from there. Consult condo board, stack provision would possibly allow other members to do the same and make sure utility will allow additional meters for this application.

How you guys know what his load calculation on his dwelling is? Just because there is 100 amp breaker doesn't mean there has to be 100 amps existing load.


If he has electric heat, water heat, laundry, electric clothes dryer --- there probably isn't much extra capacity, if he doesn't have laundry, has gas heat, gas watter heat, gas range - he very well could have less then 50 amps load calculation.

 

[414Mhz]

How you guys know what his load calculation on his dwelling is? Just because there is 100 amp breaker doesn't mean there has to be 100 amps existing load.


If he has electric heat, water heat, laundry, electric clothes dryer --- there probably isn't much extra capacity, if he doesn't have laundry, has gas heat, gas watter heat, gas range - he very well could have less then 50 amps load calculation.

Because I'm clairvoyant

Oh, and he posted a pic of his panel on DIYchatroom :lol:

 

[mk23169]

How you guys know what his load calculation on his dwelling is? Just because there is 100 amp breaker doesn't mean there has to be 100 amps existing load.


If he has electric heat, water heat, laundry, electric clothes dryer --- there probably isn't much extra capacity, if he doesn't have laundry, has gas heat, gas watter heat, gas range - he very well could have less then 50 amps load calculation.

I will post the same picture here of the panel. So the consensus is that even though when I turn on all appliances I measure only 50 amp load, the panel is "full" and cannot spare a 50 amp feeder, correct?

Thanks for all the input everyone, I really appreciate it.

http://i63.tinypic.com/307vkw2.jpg

 

[MyCleveland]

It's 120/208 3 phase.

Call back the guys that said “NO”, and ask them to price the meter stack expansion idea.
They will likely charge for their time.... I would.

Calcs need to done, you may find the original calcs at the local bldg dept.

Talk with utility about having multiple meters and what your costs would be.

The charger station you have in mind...what is the operating Voltage?
If it states 240, you need to find out if can operate at 208 Volts.

 

[mk23169]

Call back the guys that said “NO”, and ask them to price the meter stack expansion idea.
They will likely charge for their time.... I would.

Calcs need to done, you may find the original calcs at the local bldg dept.

Talk with utility about having multiple meters and what your costs would be.

The charger station you have in mind...what is the operating Voltage?
If it states 240, you need to find out if can operate at 208 Volts.

If it's not a simple "ok" to tap the existing feed, I will go down the road of using the main panel and reimbursing the HOA for usage. I was asking this question here originally because it would be much easier politically to use my own meter, if possible. I also asked because I received conflicting info from multiple electricians, all with the same certainty.

It seems the answer here is that is in fact not possible to use my meter.

And also for my charging station, it will use 208v @ 40amp with a 50 amp breaker.

Thanks!

 

[Jamesco]

It's 120/208 3 phase.

And???:huh:

Is the charger 120V or 208V