Two Pole Switches Used to Control Two Different Circuits

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Re: Two Pole Switches Used to Control Two Different Circuits

Originally posted by thinfool:
Another aspect, if I remember correctly...you cannot do this if you are supplying 277 volt lighting. It would mean 480 would be present within the switch housing.
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That is not a violation, you may switch a 480 volt load with a properly rated two pole switch.

However you may not have more than 300 volts between two separate devices in the same box without a divider.
 
Re: Two Pole Switches Used to Control Two Different Circuits

Bob,
Keep in mind a multiwire branch circuit can be considered one circuit.
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And exactly how does the switch know that it is connected to a multiwire circuit or 2 individual circuits????
 
Re: Two Pole Switches Used to Control Two Different Circuits

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19:
Bob,
Keep in mind a multiwire branch circuit can be considered one circuit.
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And exactly how does the switch know that it is connected to a multiwire circuit or 2 individual circuits????
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I have no idea, perhaps some communication between the switch and the electrons. :D

Someone I consider a code expert once told me the code does not have to make sense. ;)

I always keep that in mind when trying to understand the NEC.

In the past I have switched a 120 fan and 277 lighting with one two pole switch, from what I have learned here that is not a correct method.
 
Re: Two Pole Switches Used to Control Two Different Circuits

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
Bob this was pointed out already but everyone just seemed to glide right past it.
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Yup, guilty as charged, but I had a great time gliding. :D

So what's the concensus here? No wait, concensus means nothing. Bottom line, we can't use a DP swich in this application because it's not UL listed for the application. Right?
 
Re: Two Pole Switches Used to Control Two Different Circuits

210.4
(B) Where a multiwire branch circuit supplies more than one device or equipment on the same yoke, a means shall be provided to disconnect
simultaneously all ungrounded conductors supplying those devices or equipment at the point where te branch circuit originates.

(C) Line-to-Neutral Loads. Multiwire branch circuits shall supply only line-to-neutral loads.
Exception No. 1: A multiwire branch circuit that supplies only one utilization equipment.
Exception No. 2: Where all ungrounded conductors of the multiwire branch circuit are opened simultaneously by the branch-circuit overcurrent device.

FPN: See 300.13(B) for continuity of grounded conductor on multiwire circuits.


210.7
(C) Multiple Branch Circuits. Where more than one
branch circuit supplies more than one receptacle on the same yoke, a means to simultaneously disconnect the ungrounded conductors supplying those receptacles shall be provided at the panelboard where the branch circuits originated.


If you notice, the reference to dwelling units has been removed and both of these sections are not occupancy specific - which means they apply to all occupancies.

So a 2-pole switch listed for two circuits is permitted by code to control two different circuits as per code.
 
Re: Two Pole Switches Used to Control Two Different Circuits

Originally posted by pierre:
210.7
(C) Multiple Branch Circuits. Where more than one
branch circuit supplies more than one receptacle on the same yoke, a means to simultaneously disconnect the ungrounded conductors supplying those receptacles shall be provided at the panelboard where the branch circuits originated.
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But is a switch a receptacle? :D

What about the UL listing issue? :confused:
 
Re: Two Pole Switches Used to Control Two Different Circuits

Peter may I say that was careful reading of the code section. You must be a student of Charlie's rules of technical reading. :cool:

As far as the UL part Pierre did say "So a 2-pole switch listed for two circuits is permitted by code to control two different circuits as per code."
 
Re: Two Pole Switches Used to Control Two Different Circuits

Thanks Bob. :cool:

Clearly, the stumbling block for me was the UL issue. Now that it's cleared up, has anyone seen a switch that is marked or listed for 2-circuit use?
 
Re: Two Pole Switches Used to Control Two Different Circuits

I actually posted the '02 version from cut/paste in my computer. The '05 version is different - has been modified.

(B) Multiple Branch Circuits. Where two or more branch circuits supply devices or equipment on the same yoke....

sorry about that, but for some reason I cannot cut/paste from the '05 version?????
 
Re: Two Pole Switches Used to Control Two Different Circuits

Peter
yes, most manufacturers make them.

Cooper Wiring shows a 120v-240v special use UL listed to 1054 switching device.

some of the others show 120v listing 2-pole with the tab removalable between, and others that are standard 120v 2-pole switches. With those, I do not see why they could not be used to switch two different circuits that have a potential between them (208, 240).
 
Re: Two Pole Switches Used to Control Two Different Circuits

Originally posted by pierre:
I do not see why they could not be used to switch two different circuits that have a potential between them (208, 240).
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As long as they where marked "two circuit" as UL requires with they could be used.

[ October 22, 2005, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: Two Pole Switches Used to Control Two Different Circuits

Originally posted by pierre:
I actually posted the '02 version from cut/paste in my computer. The '05 version is different - has been modified.

(B) Multiple Branch Circuits. Where two or more branch circuits supply devices or equipment on the same yoke....

sorry about that, but for some reason I cannot cut/paste from the '05 version?????
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Okay...210.7 (B) seems to prohibit this unless there is a tie breaker between the two circuits. However, 210.7 is labeled Branch Circuit Receptacle Requirements. This takes us back to the question, 'Is a switch considered a receptacle or outlet?' :D

Yes, I did this back before the 2005 code attempted, and I use this word because I can see that's what they're trying to get at & failed, to discontinue this practice. The other way would be to place a 6x6x4 enclosure up in the ceiling with a relay that energizes with the lights and then turns on the fart fans. Many times the men's and women's rooms use the same exhaust fan for the smaller restrooms. So you then still have to use a two pole switch, switching the same circuit. One for the lights and the other for the fan relay. That way you don't backfeed the lights to the other restroom.
 
Re: Two Pole Switches Used to Control Two Different Circuits

Paul I believe you are correct. This needs a code proposal. The proposal to relocate it or if they decide not to relocate it, we will know what they were thinking ;) .

[ October 23, 2005, 01:37 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]
 
Re: Two Pole Switches Used to Control Two Different Circuits

It doesn't need to be relocated - the title just needs to be changed from receptacle to "device." ;)
 
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