typed or hand written estimates.

[Power Tech]

We've already established that doesn't apply to me didn't we? I'm also thinking this would only apply if it was enforced. Is it?

Yah, we did.

I don't know how much it is enforced. I never break the law.:roll: The CSLB sends me a news letter biannually with all the revocations. Most of them are not completing a job for the stated price, and order to correct. There are so many numbers. Very sobering, seeing all the dreams like mine now gone.

I wish I could get that up front. I have had to be very creative to get that first draw and eat in between.

The government has to protect these people form us contractors. They use another word that starts with C though.

 

[ultramegabob]

My plumber friend was telling me that you weren't allowed to charge more than a certain percent of the total material cost. So even if a part that costs $100, plus $50 in various pipes and fittings, but takes two days to install, you could only charge $300.

I think that's crazy, and maybe unsubstantiated...anybody else know anything about this?

you wouldnt make very much money replacing a lamp in a parking lot light pole charging that way....

 

[goldstar]

On jobs that are pretty much standard (like service upgrades) it's easy to give a verbal or hand-written estimate up front. However, a type-written proposal and a signed contract is the best way to go. That way all parties agree in writing and conditions and payment schedules are agreed to up front. On jobs that are a bit more complex I like to sit and gather my thoughts before I submit an estimate or proposal. When I have a gun to my head I always seem to make a mistake in the customer's favor.

 

[bradleyelectric]

Yah, we did.

I don't know how much it is enforced. I never break the law.:roll: The CSLB sends me a news letter biannually with all the revocations. Most of them are not completing a job for the stated price, and order to correct. There are so many numbers. Very sobering, seeing all the dreams like mine now gone.

I wish I could get that up front. I have had to be very creative to get that first draw and eat in between.

The government has to protect these people form us contractors. They use another word that starts with C though.

If the revocations are for not completing the project at the agreed to price and you have a signed paper with a price and scope of work then I wouldn't be bothered with that scare tactic. It doesn't apply to you. I'd make sure I had something well written about contingencies though.

What is the law regarding when you can get a second draw and what is it limited to? If there isn't much verbage about that I's take 10% deposit and not have a problem with that. It just stops price shopping and locks them on the schedule. I'm not real concerned with the amount of deposit. Second draw could be for 40% when I arrive to do the job with materials. 25% before rough inspection, 15% before final inspection, 10% after final inspection if there is a law requiring all inspections completed before final payment. I try to get all my money on small residential jobs before final inspection.

 

[Power Tech]

If the revocations are for not completing the project at the agreed to price and you have a signed paper with a price and scope of work then I wouldn't be bothered with that scare tactic. It doesn't apply to you. I'd make sure I had something well written about contingencies though.

What is the law regarding when you can get a second draw and what is it limited to? If there isn't much verbage about that I's take 10% deposit and not have a problem with that. It just stops price shopping and locks them on the schedule. I'm not real concerned with the amount of deposit. Second draw could be for 40% when I arrive to do the job with materials. 25% before rough inspection, 15% before final inspection, 10% after final inspection if there is a law requiring all inspections completed before final payment. I try to get all my money on small residential jobs before final inspection.

That is pretty much what I do.

They don't regulate the payment schedule, just the initial up front money.

Get them signed and get a check for the investigation that I tell them goes toward the cost of the job.

Charge 30-40% upon permit acquisition.

At rough I like to be paid "break even" plus 10% at rough.

I write in the contract upon completion of scope of work, not final inspection.

I don't need my money held up if there is a structural or mechanical problem that hods the final inspection up.

If I am the prime, I get inspection before I bill for final payment.

 

[iwire]

50% at signing, 25% before rough inspection, 25 % before final inspection.

I like to get payment BEFORE each inspection.

I would not do business with a contractor that wanted that much up front, and you're not getting final payment till the job including inspections is 100% complete. To me that is a warning sign of a company that does not have it's finances in order. I am not saying that describes you, only that IMO it projects that image true or not.

 

[Kdog76]

I would not do business with a contractor that wanted that much up front, and you're not getting final payment till the job including inspections is 100% complete. To me that is a warning sign of a company that does not have it's finances in order. I am not saying that describes you, only that IMO it projects that image true or not.

On my service changes I get 1/2 down before I start, the other half to be paid upon completion. It's been working well in my experience for about 5 years. Nobody's complained yet...

 

[George Stolz]

How many of you when doing small estimates for res and Commercial handwrite the estimate at the time of meeting customer or do you type the estimate at the office and then email it to the customer.
I am talking about jobs like service changes A/C connects ho tub connects lighting and outlets add.

We've been trying to figure out an SOP for this as well. In general, something small that we can estimate onsite, quickly, and get the job done on the same visit gets a verbal estimate and an invoice mailed from the shop.

I am thinking maybe I should go with a hand written estimate at the time of meeting the customers.

If you're talking about small 1-3 hour jobs, my boss feels the same way, but I feel like it's generally a waste of time. I suppose if the sheet had some sort of information that is universal on it, it would give the customer something to read while I did the work - but I'd hate to stand there and read our fine print to the customer, or wait for them to read it.

I just figure out the price for something small in my head, tell them, and if they go for it then I accept a check and tell them an invoice is forthcoming from the shop.

Does anyone carry a laptop and portable printer in their vehicles for giving an estimate? If so, how does that work out?

I got all excited about generating invoices onsite, and now that excitement has passed, for me. As much as I was thinking it would be quick, professional, fun, etc, in general I wound up not liking it. The problem is probably on our end; the boss wanted an invoice that just states the end price. I wanted to get all fancy and show adjusted parts costs, combined with the labor cost, to show a T&M price. That was a mistake.

So, printing an invoice onsite hit a speed bump and I decided it was a waste of time to retool to follow the best course of action.

Printing estimates would look neater, but I figure it would be a waste of time unless it had all the legalese on it - which could potentially scare somebody off. Nothing like just needing four receptacles swapped out and being confronted with a four-page legally binding document to sign before the work starts.

The other aspect is, what happens when your company grows? You buy a laptop, inverter, and a printer for every van? It's easier to send the uniformity of paperwork problem towards the office, than try to make mini offices umpteen times in the field, IMO.

On jobs that are a bit more complex I like to sit and gather my thoughts before I submit an estimate or proposal. When I have a gun to my head I always seem to make a mistake in the customer's favor.

Amen to that.

 

[iwire]

On my service changes I get 1/2 down before I start, the other half to be paid upon completion. It's been working well in my experience for about 5 years. Nobody's complained yet...

Thats great for you and I would not suggest fixing what is working.


But as an HO I doubt I would agree to more than 1/3 down (I don't know you)

As an HO I would be thinking more like 30% down anther 50-60% when works done, final 10-20% when inspections are complete.

To many horror stories of people giving contractors large down payments and either never coming back or not coming back for a long time without nagging phone calls.

 

[George Stolz]

But as an HO I doubt I would agree to more than 1/3 down (I don't know you)

My last service change sold had about 1/6th of the overall project down, and I was sweating that one a bit. I've had issues trying to get deposits out of people in the past. Might be a regional thing.

 

[codewarrior321]

I would not do business with a contractor that wanted that much up front, and you're not getting final payment till the job including inspections is 100% complete. To me that is a warning sign of a company that does not have it's finances in order. I am not saying that describes you, only that IMO it projects that image true or not.

Some of us learn the hard way, we are good electricians, but do not know much about business.
My understanding is this, some clients you do not even need a down payment, but others you better get a good chunk of the money up front to cover your cost.
I assume that everybody here has learned what is a good client is and definitely what is a good contractor, that is why you are suppose to get references from clients and contractors alike, but if you never study or took a business course this part might be over looked because you are trying to build cash flow, equity and a bank account and forget about the business side of contracting.
When you get in to large projects you need cash flow. What happens when you have a project with large equipment, like switch gear that can drain anybodies bank account when you are small contractor?
We might all know the story of a customer that has money and wants this and that and at the end he runs out of money.
I am talking from my own experience; if I did not cover my cost then I am a bad business owner.

 

[iwire]

When you get in to large projects you need cash flow. What happens when you have a project with large equipment, like switch gear that can drain anybodies bank account when you are small contractor?.

I work for a large EC, we do many large projects and if the electrical contract is 10 million you're not getting 50% down.

Switchgear may be 200K but we will not get paid for it until it gets to the job.

I know you businessmen do not want to finance the job (can not blame you a bit), but as a homeowner I do not want to finance your company.

When I go to Lowe's they had to figure out a way to get that building built and stocked before they get my money for the $0.50 hose washer I need.

 

[Power Tech]

Some of us learn the hard way, we are good electricians, but do not know much about business.
My understanding is this, some clients you do not even need a down payment, but others you better get a good chunk of the money up front to cover your cost.
I assume that everybody here has learned what is a good client is and definitely what is a good contractor, that is why you are suppose to get references from clients and contractors alike, but if you never study or took a business course this part might be over looked because you are trying to build cash flow, equity and a bank account and forget about the business side of contracting.
When you get in to large projects you need cash flow. What happens when you have a project with large equipment, like switch gear that can drain anybodies bank account when you are small contractor?
We might all know the story of a customer that has money and wants this and that and at the end he runs out of money.
I am talking from my own experience; if I did not cover my cost then I am a bad business owner.

Right after I install the gear I bill for it on a job % basis. My supplier gives me 30 days after delivery to the job.

The switchgear bill gives me enough to pay all the bills and labor up to that point.

Plus enough to fund the future parts and labor to the next draw.

Plus enough for food.

 

[growler]

To many horror stories of people giving contractors large down payments and either never coming back or not coming back for a long time without nagging phone calls.

Yes but if you are dealing with a reputable contractor you don't have that problem. How do you think contractors get a good reputation in the first place, it's not by cheating people or not showing up or not finishing jobs.

I talked to a dissatisfied homeowner not long ago that signed a contract with a GC for home repairs. The problem is they knew they were dealing with a crook when they hired him/her so what did they expect. Now they would like the job finished by someone else but it's under contract to a scoundrel and a contract is a contract.

 

[iwire]

Yes but if you are dealing with a reputable contractor you don't have that problem.

And as a HO I know who is reputable and who is not how?

If your asking to much up front I will see that as a waring, not a sign of your good reputation.

Again, I not saying anyone should change how they do business, just trying to provide an honest view from the customer side.

 

[macmikeman]

Earlier poster asked about laptop and printer in the worktruck. I have in my van. Not too hard to set up, but I have found it only really useful when dealing strictly with service calls. If your work is a mix of service and longer term jobs then it tends to get in the way of things or if you stow it, then the re-hookup and boot process takes too much time to be of real use. If I can do multiple small service jobs on Fridays I boot it up and leave it on all day and that works great.

 

[bradleyelectric]

Thats great for you and I would not suggest fixing what is working.


But as an HO I doubt I would agree to more than 1/3 down (I don't know you)

As an HO I would be thinking more like 30% down anther 50-60% when works done, final 10-20% when inspections are complete.

To many horror stories of people giving contractors large down payments and either never coming back or not coming back for a long time without nagging phone calls.

If you started to hesitate about wanting to give that much down and the rest of the conversation was proper I'd be more than happy to get 25% down. The amount down has very little to do with what I'm looking for. I'm just looking for a monetary commitment. I just don't want to sell a job, schedule it and then get a buyer?s remorse phone call. A monetary commitment reduces the chance of that.

My trucks are current models, I've been told my business cards are the nicest people have seen. Our uniform shirts are white oxford with embroidered logos, and I act as if this isn't the first job I sold. When I?m selling the job it is a light matter of fact meeting and I?ll reduce the deposit in a heart beat as long as you give me 1.

If you want to hold the last 10% till after final inspection I would probably agree to that making sure you understand that it would be worth my time to call the inspector for $185. or that ballpark. I don?t have a lot of interest in letting you hold much more than that and will be happy to explain to you why any more wasn?t necessary. If I can?t make you comfortable with these terms I haven?t done a proper job selling you on it.

 

[bradleyelectric]

And as a HO I know who is reputable and who is not how?

That's part of sales. If they do a proper job of selling themselves then you get that warm fuzzy feeling and want to do business with them. If you don't then they didn't do a good job of selling.

It should also be a part of the marketing program. How did you find out about who you called and why did you call them? Name recognition leads to the thought of being reputable.

 

[ECB]

This wouldn't work in CA. You're limited to 10% or $1000 on signing the contract (whichever is less)

This does not apply to commercial work however. You can also get a larger down payment from a homeowner if you have a special bond, I don't remember what the bond is called, but with such a bond you can get 50% up front.

 

[jaylectricity]

I usually don't need a down payment when I sell the job, so much as I just need to know they can give me the down payment on the first day I start working there. I have many repeat customers and referrals, so I'm not too worried about getting the money before I even buy anything, and they're not too worried about giving me money up front.