UK wiring style
- Thread starter 102 Inspector
- Start date
- Status
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Let's settle this :huh:
Only the ungrounded conductor is shown for simplicity.
The only thing close to a definition of parallel conductors in the NEC is AFAIK in 310.10(H)(1)... "electrically joined at both ends".
Pick any two wires A thru E. Are they electrically joined at both ends?
Additionally, let's say each wire is contained in a separate raceway or piece of cable. If a load is connected to any one receptacle, is there circuit current on each piece of wire? (Yes) So if you have circuit current flowing in say B and D, how does this meet Code for all conductors of the same circuit to be in the same raceway or cable?
I don't disagree with anything you said here. Whether or not there is a "parallel conductor" here is still clear as mud.
NEC wants parallel conductors to be the same size, length, run in same type of raceway, or cable, etc. all in an effort to make each element of the parallel conductor set the same resistance so that each element will carry the same amount of current.
That goal is not accomplished with the "ring" circuit, unless you are lucky and load just happens to be balanced just right on the circuit or you only have one outlet with same length of conductors on each side of the "ring". But are the conductors in a "ring" circuit "parallel conductors" as per the NEC requirements, (which they do not comply with those requirements), or are they just simply segments of a circuit that happen to be parallel paths to one another?
An NEC compliant and intended "parallel conductor" is also smaller sized than the circuit design ampacity, and multiple conductors are joined together to effectively make one larger conductor, that is not necessarily the intention of the ring circuit, though reduced voltage drop and less current on an individual segment of a conductor still happen with the ring circuit.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
No.
.
Yes.
There you go. If you are not trying gain a greater ampacity then there is no non-parallel rule.
Where does the NEC say that?
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
Pic of this stuff:
That looks like what we call that NMS (Non Metallic Sheathed) cable, or 'romex'.
...excepting insulation and sheath colors.
Yes. A brand name.
The point is that live and neutral run together in close proximity.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Is that cable run in just about any location?
Here NM cable is mostly only run in dwellings, and using it at all is prohibited in some locations.
It's routinely used here for 230V single phase for residential and commercial.
Industrial three phase is almost all steel wire armoured.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
What color is the neutral?
Rick Christopherson
Senior Member
Neutral is Blue in Europe.
Live is brown, neutral is blue and the earth, if an insulated conductor, is yellow/green.
The three phase colours changed a few years ago to "harmonise" with EU land.
A totally unnecessary and insane act of monumental stupidity in my opinion - and that of many others.
It used to be very simple. The three phases were the three primary colours, red, yellow, and blue. Neutral was black.
Now brown, grey, black and blue for neutral.
Bureaucracy gone totally bluddy mad.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
If I were there my opinion would be go ahead and mess with the phase colors all you want, but leave the neutral and ground alone. At very least do not use an old neutral or ground color as a new phase conductor. Then again maybe their intention is to kill off those that don't know any better but still choose to mess with wiringLive is brown, neutral is blue and the earth, if an insulated conductor, is yellow/green.
The three phase colours changed a few years ago to "harmonise" with EU land.
A totally unnecessary and insane act of monumental stupidity in my opinion - and that of many others.
It used to be very simple. The three phases were the three primary colours, red, yellow, and blue. Neutral was black.
Now brown, grey, black and blue for neutral.
Bureaucracy gone totally bluddy mad.
The ground (earth) stayed the same. That's the only redeeming feature of the imposed totally idiotic changes. By the EU.
A somewhat off-topic rant but somewhat related to changes imposed on us by the EU.
My uncle ran the croft on the western isles off the NW coast of Scotland. A few hundred acres and not very demanding of his time. He had a full time job as borough surveyor looking after roads etc.
Also, not terribly demanding. He got a decent salary for the job. But he made much more out of agricultural produce at prices fixed by the Common Market (the predecessor of the EU) and guaranteed sales for them. Whether or not there was actually a demand. And subsidies based the number of livestock, crops..... As did many other farmers.
In accordance the common agricultural policy, CAP, which consumed the bulk of the costs of membership contributions.
The inevitable happened. The Common Market ended up with huge surpluses of milk, butter mountains, wine lakes....and stuff.
It took twenty years for the bureaucrats to admit that it was an enormous co(r)ck up and do something about it.
The solution almost breathtaking. The farmers wouldn't/couldn't continue in business without the subsidies for producing more stuff than anybody wanted.
So they got subsidies for NOT producing stuff.
We now have to deal with wire colours that nobody wants, are potentially dangerous/fatal.
I'm pretty sure that if a referendum on continued membership of the EU was put to the electorate it would get a resounding no vote.
Rant over.
Last edited:
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
We didn't learn here either, we have subsidies for not producing stuff too. We are running fast towards what the Europeans have already figured out doesn't work.
mivey
Senior Member
Yes, it is all part of the same conductor. If not, then I could just add a splice box to a paralleled set of conductors and declare they are no longer parallel. The connection at the receptacle is no different than having a wire nut or splice and dividing the conductor into segments with splices does not mean this is not a parallel feed.
What about for voltage drop concerns? Are you saying we are then free to parallel conductors?
Quite.
Government meddling/interfering/manipulation in markets for goods and produce....
I don't want bl00ddy politicians telling me what colour wire I have to use.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Agreed. I could care less what colors are used, although it is nice to have grounding/earth and grounded/neutral identified.
I believe the NEC had a similar screw up with grey being a hot/live conductor at one point in the past and now it is used as a neutral color.
My wife thinks all live/ungrounded conductors should be hot pink.
- Status