- Location
- Logan, Utah
From now on I'll start every post by saying "I'm just saying" and then the details are not important.
I could have done a better job of explaining my position.
Chris
UL listing does not mean code compliance?
- Thread starter marcs11
- Start date
- Status
I could have done a better job of explaining my position.
Chris
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
Manufacturers develop standards, an NRTL is paid to test and list products to 'standards' any given manufacturer wishes to market.
UL crossed the line developing the standard for 1699
This is not an NRTL responsibility
~RJ~
UL crossed the line developing the standard for 1699
This is not an NRTL responsibility
~RJ~
Strathead
Senior Member
- Location
- Ocala, Florida, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
Absolutely and we PM'd a little. That doesn't change the fact the DRGREG was not incorrect in his statements just less precise and detailed, but his point was there. I explained to Raider in a PM that I am interested in his detailed analysis, but that it might be better standing alone statement. Just my opinion and I meant no more offence by it than Raider did with his statements.
- Location
- Logan, Utah
UL is an ANSI Accredited Standards Developer and use the ANSI (American National Standards Institute) Process to develop a multitude of consensus Standards for Safety.
UL Standards are recognized nationally and internationally as the benchmarks for product safety. The Standards Technical Panels (STPs) provide UL with the means to receive early input from those who are interested in the standards development process. An STP is a group of individuals, representing a variety of interests, formed to review proposals related to UL Standards for Safety.
The development of ANSI/UL Standards for Safety greatly benefits from the expertise of individuals interested in the products affected by ANSI/UL Standards.
Chris
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
Thank you Raider1
perhaps i should have said, UL developed a way to pass a previously failed standard
~RJ~
perhaps i should have said, UL developed a way to pass a previously failed standard
~RJ~
- Location
- Logan, Utah
Could you expound on your statement?
The development of UL 1699 followed the ANSI process for Standards development.
Chris
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
My understanding is UL is pretty good about telling manufacturers who's equipment they test just why it might have failed and even giving them pretty good insight into how they could modify their equipment to pass. It's not like they are helping people to cheat.
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
*****
Last edited:
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
- Location
- Logan, Utah
UL has two divisions a for profit division and a non profit division. Standards development is still in the non profit division.
Chris
Chris
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
That's how they got around maintaining a 501C3 Raider , circa 2007
The very same UL lab group then manned CMP chairs in '08 ,advocating what they 'passed' @ UL
in fact the "listed supplemental arc protection circuit breaker" in 210.12 never changed due to this
~RJ~
The very same UL lab group then manned CMP chairs in '08 ,advocating what they 'passed' @ UL
in fact the "listed supplemental arc protection circuit breaker" in 210.12 never changed due to this
~RJ~
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Not saying I agree or disagree, but you need to understand that paper is only one persons viewpoint, an essay basically, presented at an IEEE conference.
It does not reflect an official opinion or consensus of of IEEE.
- Location
- Logan, Utah
The Chair of CMP 2 for the 2011 NEC was Raymond W Weber and he represented IAEI.
The Chair of CMP 2 for the 2014 and 2017 NEC was Mark Hilbert and he represented IAEI
I am not sure how UL would have manned any CMP Chair positions as those positions are filled by NFPA.
I am not sure what you mean by "in fact the "listed supplemental arc protection circuit breaker" in 210.12 never changed due to this" ?
Listed Supplemental Arc Protection Circuit Breakers were not added to the 210.12 until the 2014 NEC.
Chris
- Location
- Logan, Utah
I agree,
I have read that paper and am reviewing the information contained within, but I do recognize that this is one engineers reports and findings. I would like to hear from other engineers that were involved in the Standards Technical Committees.
Chris
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
True Jumper
Yet what you have is a phd level EE, headed the original nema task force , trying to set the record straight.
Unfortunately he went unpublished in all the trade rags, and his rop's fell on deaf CMP-2 ears
The history is well documented , and it's not pretty....
~RJ~
- Location
- Logan, Utah
Correct UL has reps on many panels as do many stakeholders in the electrical industry. IBEW, IAEI,IEC,IEEE also have reps on code panels.
That is correct due to the Standard being withdrawn due to lack of concensus.
Chris
Last edited by a moderator:
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
- Location
- Logan, Utah
- Status