under the desk!

[wyreman]

we usually whip these furniture mods but now here is a call for desks.
they wanted wiremold 4000 w outlets facing up.

I'm looking for an alternative w 3/4" emt to some monuments
but that is also kind of pricey.

3/4" to solid back to back 4sq boxes w IRCs might be the best
anyone have any insight into distributing power into under the desks thx!

 

[iwire]

I would provide face up outlets in wiremold 4000 and get paid.

 

[pjholguin]

Would you define "IRC"?

Outlets face up could be a bad thing. Didn't the 2014 make that a code violation? I think it was for all outlets, not just residential kitchen counters. I am not sure of the code article.

we usually whip these furniture mods but now here is a call for desks.they wanted wiremold 4000 w outlets facing up.

I'm looking for an alternative w 3/4" emt to some monuments
but that is also kind of pricey.

3/4" to solid back to back 4sq boxes w IRCs might be the best
anyone have any insight into distributing power into under the desks thx!

 

[david luchini]

Outlets face up could be a bad thing. Didn't the 2014 make that a code violation? I think it was for all outlets, not just residential kitchen counters. I am not sure of the code article.

It's still for Counters and Similar Work Surfaces. It's not limited to just residential anymore - 406.5(E)

 

[fmtjfw]

Would you define "IRC"?

Outlets face up could be a bad thing. Didn't the 2014 make that a code violation? I think it was for all outlets, not just residential kitchen counters. I am not sure of the code article.

W/M 4000 has a cross-section of about 4x4 inches. A face-up outlet with the W/M 4000 mounted on the desk surface would be at least 3-? inches above the surface.

406.5 Receptacle Mounting.
....
(E) Receptacles in Countertops and Similar Work Surfaces.
Receptacles, unless listed as receptacle assemblies
for countertop applications, shall not be installed in a
face-up position in countertops or similar work surfaces.
....

Note that 406.5(E) says "face-up position in countertop" When the receptacles are face-up in W/M 4000 they are not "in countertop".

 

[pjholguin]

@fmtjfw, I concur that the article doesn't mention a raised surface with
receptacles face up; however, WM4000 has a 4" flat surface...just the right area to place a cup or glass of water/coffee. It seems to me that it would be proactive to not place the receptacles face up using WM4000 due to the possibility of water/coffee being able to enter the receptacle.

Maybe...the article should be addmended to include raised surfaces of a certain width. What do you gentlemen think?

W/M 4000 has a cross-section of about 4x4 inches. A face-up outlet with the W/M 4000 mounted on the desk surface would be at least 3-? inches above the surface.

406.5 Receptacle Mounting.
....
(E) Receptacles in Countertops and Similar Work Surfaces.
Receptacles, unless listed as receptacle assemblies
for countertop applications, shall not be installed in a
face-up position in countertops or similar work surfaces.
....

Note that 406.5(E) says "face-up position in countertop" When the receptacles are face-up in W/M 4000 they are not "in countertop".

 

[iwire]

Considering floor boxes are allowed, common and in some instances encouraged I find the hand wringing over receptacles facing up at a desk to be a bit funny.

 

[pjholguin]

Did you ever see the SNL skit " The Pepsi Syndrome "? Circa 1979.

Considering floor boxes are allowed, common and in some instances encouraged I find the hand wringing over receptacles facing up at a desk to be a bit funny.

 

[fmtjfw]

@fmtjfw, I concur that the article doesn't mention a raised surface with
receptacles face up; however, WM4000 has a 4" flat surface...just the right area to place a cup or glass of water/coffee. It seems to me that it would be proactive to not place the receptacles face up using WM4000 due to the possibility of water/coffee being able to enter the receptacle.

Maybe...the article should be addmended to include raised surfaces of a certain width. What do you gentlemen think?

Sounds good to me, why don't you go for it?

 

[iwire]

I don't think any code changes should be made without a well documented trail of personal injury or property damage. In my opinion code rules based on 'what if' are rarely warranted.

I repair many face up floor receptacles, they fill with crap and you can't plug in. Or they fill with water, steam, melt, smoke but any damage is confined to the NEC required enclosure. If these outlets I repair were not allowed the customer would resort to extension cords across floors or cords run down from the ceiling. Would that be safer?

People are going to use electricity, the more costly / ugly / inconvenient the NEC makes it for them the more likely the users of electricity will resort to unsafe means to do so.


As far as making code changes just to say you did it. Well that is just nuts.

 

[pjholguin]

I agree, but at least there is an attempt to prevent water entrance when not in use; I am not a fan of face up receptacles any where...JMHO

Considering floor boxes are allowed, common and in some instances encouraged I find the hand wringing over receptacles facing up at a desk to be a bit funny.

 

[pjholguin]

I concur, and presenting a code amendment without data is just so
"Chicken Little"!

I don't think any code changes should be made without a well documented trail of personal injury or property damage. In my opinion code rules based on 'what if' are rarely warranted.

I repair many face up floor receptacles, they fill with crap and you can't plug in. Or they fill with water, steam, melt, smoke but any damage is confined to the NEC required enclosure. If these outlets I repair were not allowed the customer would resort to extension cords across floors or cords run down from the ceiling. Would that be safer?

People are going to use electricity, the more costly / ugly / inconvenient the NEC makes it for them the more likely the users of electricity will resort to unsafe means to do so.


As far as making code changes just to say you did it. Well that is just nuts.

 

[iwire]

I agree, but at least there is an attempt to prevent water entrance when not in use; I am not a fan of face up receptacles any where...JMHO

I am not a fan of them either, but I am still against adding more restrictions to them. They serve a purpose and have their place.

Our lack of love for the should not be a reason to ban them.

 

[kwired]

I agree, but at least there is an attempt to prevent water entrance when not in use; I am not a fan of face up receptacles any where...JMHO

attempt to prevent water entrance only occurs with a non removable access cover. there are many out there that had removable access covers that are nowhere to be found anymore, and maybe even some with no such cover at all.

Many of those covers are not very water tight either if they are present.

 

[kwired]

Surface mounted receptacle on a counter top is code compliant. Flush mounted receptacle in countertop is not.

Similar with floor outlets, if surface mounted is code compliant, if flush mounted - it needs to be a listed floor outlet assembly.

Now either surface mount application could still be non compliant if say we had a wet location but not a wet location rated outlet assembly. But what is a wet location. Even dry locations are permitted to be washed on occasion and still be called dry locations.

 

[wyreman]

part number

part number

I have another call for these now in a shopping mall, but it is supposed to be a single box - a discreet quad.
Do I just bandsaw a length of wiremold to fix the entrance end [presumably mc down to the baseboard] and the cover.
Is there a box made for this porpoise? I usually installed monuments but then again, I mostly work in the institution :angel:

 

[captainwireman]

Often, back home where many structures are log, the AHJ allows floor receptacles. I think it is a bad idea since there are far better options available. If you want the look and strength of log, paying for safe electrical application in these tinder boxes should be more strictly enforced.

 

[kwired]

Often, back home where many structures are log, the AHJ allows floor receptacles. I think it is a bad idea since there are far better options available. If you want the look and strength of log, paying for safe electrical application in these tinder boxes should be more strictly enforced.

Nothing wrong with floor receptacles - if they are in listed floor boxes.

 

[iwire]

Often, back home where many structures are log, the AHJ allows floor receptacles.

That is good, they should as the NEC allows floor receptacles within 18" of the wall to count as wall receptacles.