Understanding the NEC Volume 1 Article 200

[stickboy1375]

It can not be used as a traveler.

200.7(C)(1) If used for single-pole,
3-way or 4-way switch loops, the reidentified conductor
with white or gray insulation or three continuous
white stripes shall be used only for the supply to the
switch, but not as a return conductor from the switch to
the outlet.

You are reading something that does not exist, sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

 

[ryan_618]

I guess if you have performed a task for years incorrectly that makes it OK unless someone with a ballpean hammer can show you the error of your ways.:weeping:

Mike: If you can show me how an electrical switch can perfom any function without a conductor SUPPLYING it, I will eat my hat. You aren't going to find a Code expert in the world that agrees with your take on this.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Mike: If you can show me how an electrical switch can perfom any function without a conductor SUPPLYING it, I will eat my hat. You aren't going to find a Code expert in the world that agrees with your take on this.

Start eating your hat. While a code violation, you could switch the grounded conductor.

PS others agree with me on this but choose to wait and let the dust settle.

 

[hurk27]

This is one of those codes that one must understand why it was put in the code book.

And it is simply to stop people from using a white wire to land at the fixture outlet box as the switched hot, I'm not sure what cycle it was added to the code book, but that is all this requirement wants, to not end up having two white wires connected to a fixture, yes it is that simple, it's not about what we use between switch's.

(2) Where a cable assembly contains an insulated conductor
for single-pole, 3-way or 4-way switch loops and
the conductor with white or gray insulation or a marking
of three continuous white stripes is used for the
supply to the switch but not as a return conductor from
the switch to the switched outlet. In these applications,
the conductor with white or gray insulation or with
three continuous white stripes shall be permanently reidentified
to indicate its use by painting or other effective
means at its terminations and at each location
where the conductor is visible and accessible

How can you read into the above in red as saying between switch's, as it clearly says "from the switch to the switched outlet" the switch outlet would be the light outlet not another 3-way???

 

[stickboy1375]

Start eating your hat. While a code violation, you could switch the grounded conductor.

PS others agree with me on this but choose to wait and let the dust settle.

Im not reading what you are... want to break it down for me?

 

[stickboy1375]

This is one of those codes that one must understand why it was put in the code book.

And it is simply to stop people from using a white wire to land at the fixture outlet box as the switched hot, I'm not sure what cycle it was added to the code book, but that is all this requirement wants, to not end up having two white wires connected to a fixture, yes it is that simple, it's not about what we use between switch's.



How can you read into the above in red as saying between switch's, as it clearly says "from the switch to the switched outlet" the switch outlet would be the light outlet not another 3-way???

I agree. its so simple it's difficult for some to grasp the concept of why it exist...

 

[jxofaltrds]

This is one of those codes that one must understand why it was put in the code book.

And it is simply to stop people from using a white wire to land at the fixture outlet box as the switched hot

If that is what they meant they would have said it!

The intent was to let everyone know what the 'white' wire was doing.

So it is ok to confuse people at switch outlets?

3-ways have a common. That is where you connect the supply, correct? that is the only place a re-id 'white' wire can go.

4-ways have no common. So you can not connect a 'white' wire to them!

If the code want 'white' wires to be used as travelers they would have said so.

 

[DelightedInYahweh]

I would have to say the code does 'say' it pretty clearly

(2) Where a cable assembly contains an insulated conductor
for single-pole, 3-way or 4-way switch loops and
the conductor with white or gray insulation or a marking
of three continuous white stripes is used for the
supply to the switchbut not as a return conductor from
the switch to the switched outlet. In these applications,
the conductor with white or gray insulation or with
three continuous white stripes shall be permanently reidentified
to indicate its use by painting or other effective
means at its terminations and at each location
where the conductor is visible and accessible

 

[DelightedInYahweh]

HEH HEH, but I must also say that the requirement of having a neutral conductor at every switch box location sort of 'steers' installers away from utilizing the white conductor in uuhmmmmm MOST applications. Exception 1&2 taken into account(that one is for you ryan )

 

[stickboy1375]

If that is what they meant they would have said it!

The intent was to let everyone know what the 'white' wire was doing.

So it is ok to confuse people at switch outlets?

3-ways have a common. That is where you connect the supply, correct? that is the only place a re-id 'white' wire can go.

4-ways have no common. So you can not connect a 'white' wire to them!

If the code want 'white' wires to be used as travelers they would have said so.

The code is permissive, what they don't want is two whites at a switched outlet, and thats what it says.

 

[DelightedInYahweh]

Article 90 Secton1 Subsection A: Practical Safeguarding
The purpose of this Code is the practical safeguarding of persons and property from hazards arising from the use of electricity.

Subsection B: Adequacy
This Code contains provisions that are considered necessary for safety.

Subsection C: Intention
This Code is NOT intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for untrained persons.

Sometimes we loose focus on the intent of the document we are reading and in effect loose focus on the extent of what we are reading. The code is specific where it is specific, but it is not always specific. We can't read in to it what we believe to be good practices as being 'Code'. We can see it as good practices, believe it to be good practices, but that is a far cry from enforceable Code.

 

[mike1061]

Ok, how do you wire the circuit when the power is in the light fixture box, and both 3-ways branch out for there?
Thanks Mike

 

[stickboy1375]

If that is what they meant they would have said it!

The intent was to let everyone know what the 'white' wire was doing.

So it is ok to confuse people at switch outlets?

3-ways have a common. That is where you connect the supply, correct? that is the only place a re-id 'white' wire can go.

4-ways have no common. So you can not connect a 'white' wire to them!


If the code want 'white' wires to be used as travelers they would have said so.

Since no one else posted this...

Q. Can 14-2 NM cable be used for the travelers of a 3-way switch?

A. Yes, according to 404.2(A), wiring for 3-way and 4-way switching must be done so that only the ungrounded conductors are switched. In other words, the neutral conductor must not be switched. The white insulated conductor within a cable assembly can be used for single-pole, 3-way, or 4-way switch loops, if it's permanently re-identified to indicate its use as an ungrounded conductor at each location where the conductor is visible and accessible [200.7(C)(2)].