Unlicensed person doing finish on my permit

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quogueelectric

Senior Member
Location
new york
I have a friend who I sometimes work with whos answer to everything is "Throw him through the window" he doesnt waste time with all of this nonsence he will just throw you through a window if you dont pay. I sometimes wonder which method is more cost effective??
 

mlnk

Senior Member
I stand corrected. Union card means you are an electrician and have some education. not that you can function as a contractor. In many jurisdictions, a homeowner can get a permit to do his own electrical, but apparently in the locality in question an EC is required.
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
Can you just change your permit to cover the rough and not the trim?

Not a good idea. Suppose the new guy fiddles around with the rough work? Withdraw the permit, report the unlicensed hack, and call it a day.
 

lakee911

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, OH
If, as in this case, I am not allowed to come back........well, you can easily imagine what's gonna happen. Unlicensed hack puts in all the devices and throws the breaker. BOOM! BOOM! BOOM! right down the line.

I like it, but you might be held liable for this, no? Especially if someone gets hurt, regardless who is really breaking the rules ... what I mean is a burglar getting hurt robbing your house ... he could sue you, no?
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
I like it, but you might be held liable for this, no? Especially if someone gets hurt, regardless who is really breaking the rules ... what I mean is a burglar getting hurt robbing your house ... he could sue you, no?

Allow me to finish the job, and it will be done right.

Besides, if someone is doing electrical work, they should be qualified enough to do it correctly.
 

quogueelectric

Senior Member
Location
new york
This is the very reason I do a '480 Special' in my rough-ins.

I take the box that has the home run, and pigtail the hot and neutral together with an orange wire nut and stuff it in the back of the box.

When I come back to trim, I just remove the nut, separate the two wires and cap them off.

If, as in this case, I am not allowed to come back........well, you can easily imagine what's gonna happen. Unlicensed hack puts in all the devices and throws the breaker. BOOM! BOOM! BOOM! right down the line.



NOW who's gonna get a call? YOU! I know, the HO ain't gonna be happy, but all I would say is, "Well, Mr. Smith, I'm sorry that you're having problems. But if you would have allowed me to finish the job, taking care of these problems would have been my responsibility to fix. However, since you've breached the contract, I have no choice but to charge you $xxxx to come out and locate and resolve the problems for you. When would be a good time for you?........":D

Beautiful idea!! Everyone wants work for free these days.
 

dwellselectric

Inactive, Email Never Verified
Just tell the AHJ how he refuses to sign anything. Depending on what town it is they will help you out. Well unless your in Barnstable and the AHJ well as people say "makes up his own book" :roll: Call Rick Boudreau in Dennis he is a very helpful inspector 508-760-1983
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Hi. Your average 2nd floor rough and finish. Office,masterbed,large bath with jacuzzi and AH. I have a contract with the homeowner. I roughed and had it inspected. Yes I have a journeyman and ins. Half of the cost has been paid. It is going perfect. Then as I try to call for an update to do the finish I am told not to finish the job because there is someone else doing it. I talked to the town inspector and he said I need a note from the homeowner that I am released of duty to clear me and the next person that gets a permit to complete the job will be responsible for the entire job. Now, I make a note for the customer and when I present it to him he takes me outside and tells me he has someone else finishing it and is not licensed. the customer wants to drop me cash to pull the finish inspection for him. My question is where on paper or rules say that I need a note,what if the customer does not want to sign a thing. Is this a violation of NEC by any means? Do I contact my insurer? What rule do I have that will make that town building dept pull my permit off the job?

It sounds like you are doing this on a T+M basis as the remodeling progresses.

There is no reason or benefit to you to get involved any further with this guy, either doing work for him or trying to help him save a few bucks using another person doing the work.

You don't want this work officially recorded as being done by you either, I would just go to the town and ask them to inspect what was already done and close out the permit.

There will always be people trying to save a few bucks by cutting corners. You can't do anything about it so just get out of the situation with minimal liability to youself.

If your billing has not already detailed the work you have done that you are willing to take credit for, it might be wise to lay it out in a letter to the homeowner so just what you did is clear. I would not be sending a copy to the town. You might just be asking for toruble for no good end.

Move on to the next job and don't get all worked up about a skinflint like this.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
The former is qualification to do the work; unfortunately, the latter is not.

neither really means much.

a license is just a tax paid to get permission to work and a union card means dues were paid to get permission to work.

there are a LOT of hacks out there with licenses and union cards, often with both. you also have the problem of people working outside their area of actual expertise. a JM card is often viewed as proof of expertise in all areas of electrical installation. this is no more true than suggesting an MD license makes a proctologist also a competent brain surgeon.
 

hardworkingstiff

Senior Member
Location
Wilmington, NC
there are a LOT of hacks out there with licenses and union cards, often with both. you also have the problem of people working outside their area of actual expertise. a JM card is often viewed as proof of expertise in all areas of electrical installation. this is no more true than suggesting an MD license makes a proctologist also a competent brain surgeon.

I would like to 2nd these comments/thoughts.
 

casualty

Member
Location
Marble Falls
inspector

inspector

I don't know if you have a regulatory agency but in Texas we have the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation. I would also contact them about the unlicensed pro finishing your contract as well as the local court. He will be dealing with both and it could cost him more that it's worth... as well as the home owner. Good luck
 

lowryder88h

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Unlicensed

Unlicensed

Your rights are written in MGL. c. 143 3L relating to 527 CMR 12.00 Mass electrical code amendments . Rule 8. (A permit shall be terminated upon the written request of either the owner or the installing entity stated on the permit application. :grin:
 

neutral

Senior Member
Location
Missouri
Your rights are written in MGL. c. 143 3L relating to 527 CMR 12.00 Mass electrical code amendments . Rule 8. (A permit shall be terminated upon the written request of either the owner or the installing entity stated on the permit application. :grin:

I didn't know we still had rights :mad:. Too many rules regulations and requirements, I wanna be free:)
 

knickelj

Member
Location
SE Wisconsin
License!!!

License!!!

neither really means much.

a license is just a tax paid to get permission to work and a union card means dues were paid to get permission to work.

there are a LOT of hacks out there with licenses and union cards, often with both. you also have the problem of people working outside their area of actual expertise. a JM card is often viewed as proof of expertise in all areas of electrical installation. this is no more true than suggesting an MD license makes a proctologist also a competent brain surgeon.



Petersonra,
With all due respect, do you in fact have a license? In Wisconsin a license is just that. To be eligible to take the test there is a pre-qualifier of 7 years in the field, a test and yes a fee. But not an easy test, I believe it has around a 30% pass rate . Not a test anyone should take lightly. Or should be misrepresented or undermined by a member of the electrical field. Any more than I as a Licensed Master Electrician should ridicule all Engineers after one told me it was ok to?
I agree even a person with a license could be a hack. But a license requires you to have Time and experience invested and CEU?s after you manage to pass the test, more likely to be competent and sincere in there work.
 

flashlight

Senior Member
Location
NY, NY
Petersonra,
With all due respect, do you in fact have a license?

This is really the kind of response that is unhelpful. We have all seen (or unfortunately, worked for) licensed people that were legacies, hacks, or worse.
The point of this forum is to provide professional electricians with up-to-date information re code or tricks of the trade etc from a community of other professionals-- not to make groundless inferences with comments like this.
 
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knickelj

Member
Location
SE Wisconsin
License Holder

License Holder

This is really the kind of response that is unhelpful. We have all seen (or unfortunately, worked for) licensed people that were legacies, hacks, or worse.
The point of this forum is to provide professional electricians with up-to-date information re code or tricks of the trade etc from a community of other professionals-- not to make groundless inferences with comments like this.

Sorry if I offended anyone.
It was a rhetorical question to make a point.

I thought the same about being lumped in as "paying a tax" to; work seven years in the field (pre qualifier in WI), study my head off, take code classes, buy Mikes's Books (Thanks Mike, I Passed.), study some more, pay a fee, and pass the state exam to get my license. Far more than the ?Tax? referred to. And is not helpful to the forum either.

I would like to, apologize for the question, and just ask not to refer to ?license holders? as just ?tax payers?.
 

satcom

Senior Member
Sorry if I offended anyone.
It was a rhetorical question to make a point.

I thought the same about being lumped in as "paying a tax" to; work seven years in the field (pre qualifier in WI), study my head off, take code classes, buy Mikes's Books (Thanks Mike, I Passed.), study some more, pay a fee, and pass the state exam to get my license. Far more than the ?Tax? referred to. And is not helpful to the forum either.

I would like to, apologize for the question, and just ask not to refer to ?license holders? as just ?tax payers?.

You have nothing to apologize for, it was just a good question to someone that appears not to know the effort and work that goes into earning a license.
 

e_carbine

Member
I think too many times we forget the value of our licenses, we have gone through all the B.S. associated with getting licensed, insured, bonded and jumped through what ever other hoop they decide we need to jump through before we can do any work.
We should be defending this ferociously, enough of these untrained, unlicensed handyman types coming in and driving our business into the toilet. We should be doing anything and everything we can to defend our industry from the vermon infestation that is the handyman.
P.S. this situation is exactly why I started charging 70% draw after rough-in, who likes doing finishes anyway.
 
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