Unlicensed person doing finish on my permit

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N

neutral

Senior Member
Location
Missouri
I like doing finish work, I can do that without breaking a sweat or getting my clothes dirty. Just how long does it take to get a contractor license now? A license don't make a person any better at what they do, It just makes them legal. Grouping all handy men into one group is no more fair than grouping all contractors and electricians into one group. You will find good and bad in both groups. And you can say that about all groups.

Charlie
 
H

hardworkingstiff

Senior Member
Location
Wilmington, NC
neutral said:
I like doing finish work, I can do that without breaking a sweat or getting my clothes dirty. Just how long does it take to get a contractor license now?
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Your profile says you're from Michigan.

Qualifications for a Electrical Contractor License
Holds a master electrician's license or has not less than 1 master electrician residing in this state who is in his or her full-time employ. The master electrician shall be actively in charge of and responsible for code compliance of all installations of electrical wiring and equipment.
Out-of-state corporations will not qualify for a contractor's license unless they employ a master electrician residing in the state of Michigan.
Must take and pass the examination.
Must pay into the Construction Lien Recovery Fund .
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http://www.michigan.gov/dleg/0,1607,7-154-10575_17409-42954--,00.html
 
E

e_carbine

Member
My point is not that the quality of their work is good or bad, my point is that they are un-qualified to be doing the work. They do not possess the proper credentials or licensing to do electrical work.
Electrical work must be done by a licensed contractor employing licensed electricians. Any time electrical work is done by someone who does not have these credentials it takes away the value of those credentials.
It is no different than driving; You may be the best driver in the world but if you don't have a drivers license you have no business driving.
 
glene77is

glene77is

Senior Member
Location
Memphis, TN
*:) EL_MH_Pre-Emptive_Management.txt


to 480 sparky,

I like the idea. Very much.
*** "Pre-Emptive Contract Management" *** !

I recall that Lakee911 said "... if someone gets hurt ...".
But,
I don't see how anybody will be hurt
if you plug in Circuit Breakers Before Applying Power!

Here is my summary of pre-emptive management:
* Payment for material up front.
* Payment for time in stages.
* Wirenut Hot+Neutral somewhere in each homerun. ( per 480sparky )
* Run 12-3 / 14-3 extra so to backfeed some circuits ( obfuscated wiring connections ).
* Quotes on material to be generic ("Range wire" instead of "6-3wg Romex" : obfuscated material listing)
* Not to install ArcFaults / GFCI OCPD until finish.

:)
 
A

asparkofhopein33916

Member
Location
Alva, FL.
A little advice from a veteran EC, Go 2/3 to 3/4 on your next rough draw in the future. This will discourage customer bailout, which is what this looks like. You did all the hard work and supplied more of the material than the finishing electrician(?) will. So with half the draw left unpaid it easy for the owner/contractor to get it finished cheaper than your original bid. Maybe he is rationalizing it by thinking your price was too high or the finisher put it in his head. Either way if you had gotten your profit up front you could walk away now, knowing you layed out and wired the job professionally.
 
J

jsmalone1

Member
Location
southwest Missouri
e_carbine said:
My point is not that the quality of their work is good or bad, my point is that they are un-qualified to be doing the work. They do not possess the proper credentials or licensing to do electrical work.
Electrical work must be done by a licensed contractor employing licensed electricians. Any time electrical work is done by someone who does not have these credentials it takes away the value of those credentials.
It is no different than driving; You may be the best driver in the world but if you don't have a drivers license you have no business driving.
Click to expand...

I agree with your statement BUT in most areas of the country, at least in square miles, one does not in fact need a license nor any experience. And that doesn't make it right it's just reality. It actually creates opportunity for me--repairs, etc. My years in the Chicagoland area, which is heavily unionized, does not require a license for an individual. The union electricians there are NOT licensed and from my experience, most cannot pass an exam. Many are not competent nor professional---some are outstanding electricians. Licensing, union cards, "certification" truly mean nothing from my experience. Either you are an electrician or not.
 
J

jsmalone1

Member
Location
southwest Missouri
For me, I have come to believe that a large majority of the labor in our wonderful trade is in fact simply menial labor---the balance being highly skilled work. The IBEW has been working on a laborer type classification for over 10 years and I believe in some areas it has been negotiated into contracts--but not by me. There is a balance between the realities of the marketplace and what we think it should be. On my jobs I always made a point of knowing who to put on each task according to their skills and strengths & weaknesses. We are not individually good at everything nor do we know all the aspects of the electrical trade---it's too broad of a field. Unskilled electricians dilute our trade but just having a license does not make you qualified
 
Chev

Chev

Master Electrician @ Retired
Location
Mid-Michigan
Occupation
Retired Master Electrician, Formerly at Twin Lakes Electric and GMC
I would most definatly drop a dime on this chump. I had a builder try to get me to do the same thing to another contractor, I told him to go !@#$ himself. I refused to deal with him any more.
 
C

contractor

New member
Well, at least I am not the only one to have this problem.
I currently have the problem that a GC allowed a non licensed electrician to finish work or the GC himself finished work under my permit. The GC also requested and received the final inspection from the township without my knowledge-under my permit and license. When the GC called to request the final inspection he fraudulently represented that my company finished the work, to which we did not.
I was not notified that I was removed from the project so I may be able to go for breach of contract.
The GC was suppose to notify the township when someone is removed from the job so a new permit could be issued and work to cease under the other permit...this did not happen, leaving my company with a large liability issue.
GC indicated that the homeowner wanted me off the job because I disrespected her, but our versions of what happened are miles apart. When I left the site that day I was to return and finish hanging the fixtures when she received the correct color. I made follow up calls to both the homeowner and the GC to see when the correct fixture would be on site and no calls were returned.
The last time I heard from the GC he informed me the job was completed and inspected and he would not be paying me the balance.
I contacted the township and requested that they find out who finished the work and have that person pull their own permit and release my company from any liability issues.
The response I just received from the township indicates that because the final was already completed (not by my company) that they would put a note in the permanent file that we did not finish the work and also note that when my company pulls permits in their township that noone except a representative be allowed to call for a final, but other than that there was nothing they could do.
My question is: Does anyone know the section # of the code that indicates it is illegal to work under another permit or licenses
My recourse now is to file a complaint with the STate License Board and File a lien on the homeowner, and file a complaint against the building department of the township.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
 
T

tommyrice

Member
unlicensed person doing work on my permit

unlicensed person doing work on my permit

Recently I wired a 2 unit apt house.I roughed in first and second apts and had them inspected.The GC paid me the agreed installment.I then proceeded to device both apts as soon as they were sheetrocked.I told the GC to bring the lights and I could call for a final.He said the lights would be there soon.After 4 months and no lights , I told him to pay me.He said he finished the wiring himself and would only pay me part of our contract installment.Just to collect some of the money owed me,I agreed to accept the partial,but told him I would not call for a final in my name.I also told him I was going to inform the city elect. insp.I told him his tenants would probably be asked to leave until a licenced electrician took responsability to check GCs work and got it inspected.Under those terms , he refused to pay me anything,so I filled breach of contract with magistrate,and GC settled out of court for 70% of what he owed me.A friend of mine asked me if he could check GCs work and call for final under his name.My friend probably charged the GC more than the GC owed me.If you give these rats an inch they'll take a mile.
 
brockbone

brockbone

Member
Location
Glendale, CA
Acceptance and growth

Acceptance and growth

I would try another approach first. Make contact with the guy doing the work, interview him and if he passes offer him a job.
The guy obviously knows something about the trade and you must admit he has a lot ?on the ball? if he was able to slide in on Ya.
Just a thought
 
LEO2854

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
zaptd said:
Hi. Your average 2nd floor rough and finish. Office,masterbed,large bath with jacuzzi and AH. I have a contract with the homeowner. I roughed and had it inspected. Yes I have a journeyman and ins. Half of the cost has been paid. It is going perfect. Then as I try to call for an update to do the finish I am told not to finish the job because there is someone else doing it. I talked to the town inspector and he said I need a note from the homeowner that I am released of duty to clear me and the next person that gets a permit to complete the job will be responsible for the entire job. Now, I make a note for the customer and when I present it to him he takes me outside and tells me he has someone else finishing it and is not licensed. the customer wants to drop me cash to pull the finish inspection for him. My question is where on paper or rules say that I need a note,what if the customer does not want to sign a thing. Is this a violation of NEC by any means? Do I contact my insurer? What rule do I have that will make that town building dept pull my permit off the job?
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It is Illegal for any unlicensed person to perform Electricial work for hire in massachusetts the board of state Examiers of Electricians rules .you can go to the web site and read for your self ,If you have a permit tell the inspecter
that the home owner hired someone unlicensed and he must stop the job and have any work performed removed,If he takes no action you must report him to the board,, the board will send out an investigater.
The unlicensed person will be fined $2500 and can face up to six months in prison:grin: you can call the board at 617 727 7406 and speek to an investigater
click here and you can read the boards rules.http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=ocasubt...d+of+State+Examiners+of+Electricians&sid=Eoca

If you do not report this an somthing goes wrong you can lose your license for not reportig this unlicened wanabe
 
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LEO2854

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
tommyrice said:
Recently I wired a 2 unit apt house.I roughed in first and second apts and had them inspected.The GC paid me the agreed installment.I then proceeded to device both apts as soon as they were sheetrocked.I told the GC to bring the lights and I could call for a final.He said the lights would be there soon.After 4 months and no lights , I told him to pay me.He said he finished the wiring himself and would only pay me part of our contract installment.Just to collect some of the money owed me,I agreed to accept the partial,but told him I would not call for a final in my name.I also told him I was going to inform the city elect. insp.I told him his tenants would probably be asked to leave until a licenced electrician took responsability to check GCs work and got it inspected.Under those terms , he refused to pay me anything,so I filled breach of contract with magistrate,and GC settled out of court for 70% of what he owed me.A friend of mine asked me if he could check GCs work and call for final under his name.My friend probably charged the GC more than the GC owed me.If you give these rats an inch they'll take a mile.
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Remember that it is the insectors job to enforce the NEC and mass license laws raitio 1 journeyman 1 helper
He does not have the right to have total disregard for the board's rules
 
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