Unusual Situation

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Baker

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Location
Pennsylvania
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Control Technician / Licensed Electrician
Hello everyone, I have encountered an odd situation that I need some thoughts on. Hopefully this is the right topic to put this under. A friend of mine called and said that he felt a tingle when running his shower and outside faucets. I immediately said to stop and walked him through some tests and connection points to verify were good. Everything is solidly grounded and bonded. Main feed is bonded and water lines are also bonded. I had him turn main panel off and check continuity from neutral to ground and it was zero ohms. All connections were tight and in good condition. With power off he was measuring 14vac from water line to earth ground. I'm not there to see this so I was originally thinking meter reading improperly. I had him put his fluke on voltage alert and hold it up to his water lines at multiple locations and it went off detecting voltage. I had him do this on his ground rod and it did the same thing, detected voltage. This is all done with the main breaker turned off. He recently pounded wooden fence posts in the ground in the area of his underground feed. Is it possible he hit it and has voltage leaking through his ground now? I'm writing this very fast so I may have missed something. Send questions and I'll try to respond. But with main power off to the house this is the only way I can see voltage being on the water lines and ground rod.
 
If the city water system is metal piping, a neighbor could have lost a neutral causing neutral current from the neighbor’s house to flow through the water lines to the N-G connection at your friend’s house (and others as well). Put a clamp-on ammeter around the incoming water pipe and check for current flow.

He should really call an electrician and have it investigated properly.
 
He recently pounded wooden fence posts in the ground in the area of his underground feed. Is it possible he hit it and has voltage leaking through his ground now.

Of course that's possible. Could be a handful of things. Does the house have city water or a well pump?
 
Buck Parrish said:
He recently pounded wooden fence posts in the ground in the area of his underground feed. Is it possible he hit it and has voltage leaking through his ground now.

Of course that's possible. Could be a handful of things. Does the house have city water or a well pump?
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This is on a well pump. I'm going to try and go look at it tomorrow for myself. It's not making sense other then a line broken underground. Well pump is off as well as the entire house when detecting voltage on water pipes and ground rod
 
Here are pictures he sent me
 

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retirede said:
If the city water system is metal piping, a neighbor could have lost a neutral causing neutral current from the neighbor’s house to flow through the water lines to the N-G connection at your friend’s house (and others as well). Put a clamp-on ammeter around the incoming water pipe and check for current flow.

He should really call an electrician and have it investigated properly.
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I agree. Have a qualified person check for current flow on the water pipe, grounding electrode and neutral with everything in a de-energized state. This could rule out or confirm an open neutral condition on another service supplied by the same distribution transformer.
 
Xptpcrewx said:
I agree. Have a qualified person check for current flow on the water pipe, grounding electrode and neutral with everything in a de-energized state. This could rule out or confirm an open neutral condition.
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I'm going to check it out tomorrow. Planning on turning power off and checking what I have.
 
If the voltage offset is present with the main breaker off and there is not a metal water pipe connection to another customer, a strong possiblity is that POCO has lost their metallic multiply grounded neutral (MGN) connection on the primary side of their transformer. The unbalanced primary currrent flowing through their local earth electrodes causes an offset of voltage between the secondary neutral and earth ground.
This potentially a very dangerous situation and would have to be corrected by POCO. If it is not an actual break but just a marginally sized primary neutral, POCO may want to insert a ground isolator on the customer's neutral instead of actually fixing the problem. 14 volts is more than is usually appropriate for a ground isolator.
 
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GoldDigger said:
If the voltage offset is present with the main breaker off and there is not a metal water pipe connection to another customer, a strong possiblity is that POCO has lost their metallic multiply grounded neutral (MGN) connection on the primary side of their transformer. The unbalanced primary currrent flowing through their local earth electrodes causes an offset of voltage between the secondary neutral and earth ground.
This potentially a very dangerous situation and would have to be corrected by POCO. It is not an actual break but just a marginally sized primary neutral, POCO may want to insert a ground isolator on the customer's neutral instead of actually fixing the problem. 14 volts is more than is usually appropriate for a ground isolator.
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And since the OP is not a licensed electrician, the POCO likely won’t give him the time of day!
 
Well thanks all. Was just looking for someone to back up what I was thinking without seeing it for myself. I went and investigated it for myself today. And just so everyone is aware I am a licensed electrician. Not only do I work 7 days a week 12hrs a day as a control technician / industrial electrician I also run my own electrical business on the side. Yes POCO gave me the time of day and yes it was their problem. Turns out it was a compromised neutral connection on their side causing current flow back to my friends service. Thanks for the help.
 
You might want to update your profile to
include ‘licensed electrician’. It currently states control technician.
Sorry, I wasn’t trying to diss you!
 
Updated. Sorry didn't know it was this harsh. I mean I get it I personally have issues with people who claim to be "electricians" who are not. I work with a few every day of my life. I usually post things before I get to look at them for myself just for ideas from others that I may not have thought of.
 
Baker said:
Updated. Sorry didn't know it was this harsh. I mean I get it I personally have issues with people who claim to be "electricians" who are not. I work with a few every day of my life. I usually post things before I get to look at them for myself just for ideas from others that I may not have thought of.
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I don't think it matters what people call them. A lot of plants call their instrument technicians electricians. The guys aren't typically very good electricians but they're usually pretty good instrument techs. And for the most part as far as I'm concerned a good instrument tech is worth four or five electricians. But that's just me because I don't typically need an actual electrician when I'm out in the field I need an instrument tech.
 
Baker said:
Updated. Sorry didn't know it was this harsh. I mean I get it I personally have issues with people who claim to be "electricians" who are not. I work with a few every day of my life. I usually post things before I get to look at them for myself just for ideas from others that I may not have thought of.
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You just wandered unknowingly into a sore spot caused in part by the fact that our last major forum software upgrade deleted everybody's Occupation field. :(
 
GoldDigger said:
You just wandered unknowingly into a sore spot caused in part by the fact that our last major forum software upgrade deleted everybody's Occupation field. :(
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It's all good. I've been a member of this forum for many years but have been inactive the last few. I noticed all my old profile pics and such are gone. Hopefully I can stay more active.
 
Baker said:
Updated. Sorry didn't know it was this harsh. I mean I get it I personally have issues with people who claim to be "electricians" who are not. I work with a few every day of my life. I usually post things before I get to look at them for myself just for ideas from others that I may not have thought of.
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The need is because the owner and host of the forum insists that we only assist professionals.
 
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