upgrading residential services

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control4it

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I want to upgrade my service from a 100A to 200A. I want to install a new 200A panel adjacent to my existing 100A panel about 3' away. After installing the 200A panel, I plan on gutting the 100A panel and using it as a splice box to extend the branch circuits. Is there anything in the NEC that would prohibit me from doing this. BTW, I'm moving the panel to a more desirable location with suitable access.
 
No, there is nothing prohibiting you from using the old cabinet as a j-box to extend your circuits to the new location. Gut the old panel and screw the cover shut.
 
I was thinking someone would have some questions on derating and the number of current carrying conductor in the raceway between the JB and the panel.
 
Yes, I will be installing a new 200A meter "socket" and ComEd will supply the 200A meter and service drop. No, the riser must be a 2"C (rigid) and yes I will be using THHN wire. Do you think 3/0 would be large enough for 200A. BTW, do you know what the temp. rise of Buchanan wire nuts are?
 
Yes I am upgrading to a 200A service, but I have 250MCM availabe for use.
I'm not here to figure wire size, I'm just chatting to find out obscure points in the NEC that possibly could apply. There are alot of people out there that like to interpret the code in different ways and sometimes in ways that are not in-line with industry standards. I think it might be an authority thing.
 
There was no need of that.

There was no need of that.

control4it, I would normally say welcome to the forum, but at this point that may sound a bit hollow. :rolleyes:

I have no idea why you got such a hard time. I removed all that and will remind everyone about Treatment of New Members
 
This is too funny, and I didn't even read one word of the deleted comments. :mad:


As for using the old panel as a splice box, I have done it, would do it, and say go right ahead.

However, I'm sure someone here will come up with some ridiculous reason that you should not do it.
 
There is no prohibition on using the old panel as a j-box ..

I was just wondering ,...why not just re-feed the 100amp panel???
 
To avoid the derating issue i would try to keep it just under 2 feet.If you cant then use #10 from new to old to exstend the #12's.Nothing says you can't have more than 1 pipe between them.Welcome to the forum.
 
ike5547 said:
No, there is nothing prohibiting you from using the old cabinet as a j-box to extend your circuits to the new location. Gut the old panel and screw the cover shut.
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You don't even need to screw the cover shut. That's just something some people prefer to do for no particular reason. There are certainly hinged cover junction boxes, which some people call "cutout cabinets", even if they don't contain cutouts.
 
control4it said:
Yes, I will be installing a new 200A meter "socket" and ComEd will supply the 200A meter and service drop. No, the riser must be a 2"C (rigid) and yes I will be using THHN wire. Do you think 3/0 would be large enough for 200A. BTW, do you know what the temp. rise of Buchanan wire nuts are?
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FYI, recently upgraded an old 70amp panel to 200. I was sure I could use 2/0 for the feed, but 1 inspector and 2 suppliers (HD and a real supplier) both told me it had to be 3/0. Since then I've talked with other inspectors (for the same area mind you) and started reading this forum... and discovered I was right. In my situation I could have used 2/0, and kept the pipe size down, and saved a few bucks, and been better off all around (bending 2" GRC really sucked). Live and learn... though I wish I had done it in the other order.
 
control4it said:
.....and yes I will be using THHN wire. Do you think 3/0 would be large enough for 200A.....
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Make sure your THHN is also dual-rated as THWN. Otherwise, it's not rated for use outside a raceway. Most of it is, but I've run across some that isn't.
 
480sparky said:
Make sure your THHN is also dual-rated as THWN. Otherwise, it's not rated for use outside a raceway. Most of it is, but I've run across some that isn't.
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Recently? I quit checking because I never found any that wasn't. If you've found some recently, I need to start looking again.
 
mdshunk said:
Recently? I quit checking because I never found any that wasn't. If you've found some recently, I need to start looking again.
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Not in the last couple years. But that doesn't mean a supply house can't have a spool from the Nixon era still sitting in the warehouse.
 
480sparky said:
Not in the last couple years. But that doesn't mean a supply house can't have a spool from the Nixon era still sitting in the warehouse.
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Sir, are you insinuating that a supplier would sell you a product that had been in their inventory for more birthdays than the person working the counter??? Why, I certainly have never heard of such a thing!:grin: :grin:

Less than a year ago, I purchased two boxes (20) receptacles from a natinwide supply house. I was asked if I wanted a deal on some older, but still new (meaning not used) stock. I said, sure, why not.

If I'm lyin' I'm dyin' - you could still back-stab 12 awg in these things!:roll: Even the beige color was a little different, even though the cartons were still sealed, as were the individually wrapped receptacles!

EDIT: Yeah, there probably is some kinda law that says you should not be able to purchase them. I used them. Gotta live life on the edge sometimes....
 
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I still want to know ,.. Why not just re-feed the 100amp panel ,..seems it would be more cost effective certainly less time ...
 
Energize said:
....Less than a year ago, I purchased two boxes (20) receptacles from a natinwide supply house. I was asked if I wanted a deal on some older, but still new (meaning not used) stock. I said, sure, why not.

If I'm lyin' I'm dyin' - you could still back-stab 12 awg in these things!.......
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I've seen the same thing myself within the past year. Someone in the warehouse obviously doesn't understand "Stock Rotation".
 
M. D. said:
I still want to know ,.. Why not just re-feed the 100amp panel ,..seems it would be more cost effective certainly less time ...
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I agree. I also agree that you could turn the 100-amp panel into a J-box, and of course if your panels are 2' rather than 3' a part you have no need to derate.

But at the same time, unless you have a dinosaur panel (FPE, Zinsco, Wadsworth, Push-o-Matic, etc) than why not just push three #4's and a #8 and drop a 100-amp in the the new panel and be done with it?

Also, 3/0 is fine for the riser, but why not use 2/0? 310.15(b)(6)
 
I'm sure someone here will come up with some ridiculous reason that you should not do it.
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How about "it's likely to look like crap".:wink:

As far as re feeding the old panel, just about every old panel I have upgraded needed to be replaced. The life expecrancy for this stuff is what....50 years? Might as well make everything new.
 
Minuteman said:
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than why not just push three #4's and a #8 and drop a 100-amp in the the new panel and be done with it?
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# 4 would not be allowed for a 100 amp feeder in this case.
 
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