Upside Down Receptacle ?
- Thread starter jerryb52
- Start date
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luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: Upside Down Receptacle ?
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Upside Down Receptacle ?
OK here goes. What was thrown at me. If we put ground up on 1/2 swithed receptacles ,this helps us with the new home owner.Now if we think this out if bottom half is switched this leaves an easy to to get at 1/2 for other devices that do not have other devices pluged in.Also think of it this way the ground prong is longer,so if a 3 prong is pluged in the ground is the last to come loose.That idea was from S+S Elecric. Name means nothing to others than me and Allen,but does make some since.
What im waiting for is someone to figure out we no longer need that ground wire since we have plastic boxes and very few 3 prong devices.Solve it all with a gfci recptacle at first point and add safety
OK here goes. What was thrown at me. If we put ground up on 1/2 swithed receptacles ,this helps us with the new home owner.Now if we think this out if bottom half is switched this leaves an easy to to get at 1/2 for other devices that do not have other devices pluged in.Also think of it this way the ground prong is longer,so if a 3 prong is pluged in the ground is the last to come loose.That idea was from S+S Elecric. Name means nothing to others than me and Allen,but does make some since.
What im waiting for is someone to figure out we no longer need that ground wire since we have plastic boxes and very few 3 prong devices.Solve it all with a gfci recptacle at first point and add safety
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Upside Down Receptacle ?
Want a switch to match that receptacle?
Want a switch to match that receptacle?
jerryb52
Member
- Location
- Lake Worth, Florida
Re: Upside Down Receptacle ?
Thanks for all the info guys. I was 99% sure I was right but had to throw it out there for confirmation.
I tried to explain this to this apprentice and they still said that they were told this in school so it was a fact. And added, "Didn't I have anything better to do with my time?" My reply was "No, this is what I do for a living and try to do it to the best of my ability."
Thanks again...
Thanks for all the info guys. I was 99% sure I was right but had to throw it out there for confirmation.
I tried to explain this to this apprentice and they still said that they were told this in school so it was a fact. And added, "Didn't I have anything better to do with my time?" My reply was "No, this is what I do for a living and try to do it to the best of my ability."
Thanks again...
scott moran
Member
Re: Upside Down Receptacle ?
The neutral is not up, the hot is up. That is just the way it is done here.
The neutral is not up, the hot is up. That is just the way it is done here.
richwaskowitz
Senior Member
- Location
- Shelby Twp. MI, near Detroit
Re: Upside Down Receptacle ?
To answer peterd:
I was taught that the switched outlet should be on the bottom. The way we were taught to remember the orientation (black hot wire on the top and red switched wire on teh bottom) during plugging and plating was:
"If you don't get it right, the boss is going to drag your butt down the street. Then you will remember that blacktop results in a red bottom".
To answer peterd:
I was taught that the switched outlet should be on the bottom. The way we were taught to remember the orientation (black hot wire on the top and red switched wire on teh bottom) during plugging and plating was:
"If you don't get it right, the boss is going to drag your butt down the street. Then you will remember that blacktop results in a red bottom".
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Upside Down Receptacle ?
If the entire duplex receptacle is switched, can those receptacles still be included in the requried receptacle outlets required per 210.42 for wall space?
[ October 29, 2004, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: bphgravity ]
If the entire duplex receptacle is switched, can those receptacles still be included in the requried receptacle outlets required per 210.42 for wall space?
[ October 29, 2004, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: bphgravity ]
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Upside Down Receptacle ?
Why not, what section says otherwise?
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Upside Down Receptacle ?
Yes both halves can be switched ,and count as required but why not give the customer the advantage of both ? What happens if his alarm clock or tv is on it ? Then we end up with tape over a switch to keep it on and just messed up why we had the switch.
Yes both halves can be switched ,and count as required but why not give the customer the advantage of both ? What happens if his alarm clock or tv is on it ? Then we end up with tape over a switch to keep it on and just messed up why we had the switch.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Upside Down Receptacle ?
Well I just got a shock that switch wall receptacles can not be counted when SA receptacles are required as I have always thought that they wouldn't count toward the required wall space receptacles any where but when I looked it up I only found it under the requirements for the SA receptacles?
Re: Upside Down Receptacle ?
At one time I worked tract and all-half hots were top switched and orientation was ground down. The can of worms continues as even though the NEC does not specify receptacle orientation there is some past history that might be considered. On commercial and military rack equipment the AC wire strips set inside the vertical rack wall are specified to have the ground contact down. The reason being that instrument power cords use drip loop design with 90 degree connectors with grounds facing down. All AN and Mil chassis equipment were manufactured for Army-Navy installations and this included wall and bench receptacles throughout the site to match. (circa 1955) Tests revealed that objects falling down the wall would deflect off the wall plate and hit the protruding plug cable sometimes damaging the outlet receptacle itself. This didn't matter whether the ground prong was up or down. As far the modern argument of up and down, the two prong connector is in the majority of domestic use for lamps, radios, practically all entertainment equipment, clocks, cosmetics, and many other non-conductive ungrounded case appliances that render the 'ground prong up' concept virtually ineffective.
There are many DIYer books out there and some well known educational texts that push the metal object down-the-wall shorting concept that is causing problems in the electrical industry. This can be frustrating when using a tester that is designed to read on top of a plug-in designed for the ground down orientation. I feel the NEC should standardize on this with the electrical manufacturers and put this argument down for good.(Wishful thinking. )
At one time I worked tract and all-half hots were top switched and orientation was ground down. The can of worms continues as even though the NEC does not specify receptacle orientation there is some past history that might be considered. On commercial and military rack equipment the AC wire strips set inside the vertical rack wall are specified to have the ground contact down. The reason being that instrument power cords use drip loop design with 90 degree connectors with grounds facing down. All AN and Mil chassis equipment were manufactured for Army-Navy installations and this included wall and bench receptacles throughout the site to match. (circa 1955) Tests revealed that objects falling down the wall would deflect off the wall plate and hit the protruding plug cable sometimes damaging the outlet receptacle itself. This didn't matter whether the ground prong was up or down. As far the modern argument of up and down, the two prong connector is in the majority of domestic use for lamps, radios, practically all entertainment equipment, clocks, cosmetics, and many other non-conductive ungrounded case appliances that render the 'ground prong up' concept virtually ineffective.
There are many DIYer books out there and some well known educational texts that push the metal object down-the-wall shorting concept that is causing problems in the electrical industry. This can be frustrating when using a tester that is designed to read on top of a plug-in designed for the ground down orientation. I feel the NEC should standardize on this with the electrical manufacturers and put this argument down for good.(Wishful thinking.
)jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Upside Down Receptacle ?
HURK 27
Reread this.What it said was that a general purpose recept can't count as a SA
I see no place where it says i can't switch a SA receptacle,or that if i do that it is not counted
HURK 27
Reread this.What it said was that a general purpose recept can't count as a SA
I see no place where it says i can't switch a SA receptacle,or that if i do that it is not counted
rhn
Member
- Location
- N. Ft. Myers
Re: Upside Down Receptacle ?
The first time I saw that in a track home I thought it was very poor workmanship then I realized the ground up were switched, I thought about it and came up with, yup its very poor workmanship
The first time I saw that in a track home I thought it was very poor workmanship then I realized the ground up were switched, I thought about it and came up with, yup its very poor workmanship
rhn
Member
- Location
- N. Ft. Myers
Re: Upside Down Receptacle ?
Roger I was taught a long time ago by a true craftsman that things need to be uniformed
[ November 02, 2004, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: rhn ]
Roger I was taught a long time ago by a true craftsman that things need to be uniformed
[ November 02, 2004, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: rhn ]
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: Upside Down Receptacle ?
Jim, see 210.70(A)(1) Exception 1. It says you can't do that it kitchens. Dining room would be all right, I'd imagine, but kitchens, no.
Glad to clear that up. I knew you probably hadn't been sleeping good for the past two months or so.
Whoooo! Look out while I blow the dust off this one.
Jim, see 210.70(A)(1) Exception 1. It says you can't do that it kitchens. Dining room would be all right, I'd imagine, but kitchens, no.
Glad to clear that up. I knew you probably hadn't been sleeping good for the past two months or so.
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