Use of a BF GFCI used as a dishwasher disconnect.

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enigma-2 said:
I believe you meant to say "blank face GFCI".

Do you have any further code references to substantiate your opinion other than "let me just say....". Now, please understand, I strongly lean toward agreeing with you, but I have always used the code to reinforce my stand on things (legality and all that), and there just seems to be so much gray area on this.
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Nope...meant what i said in it's exactness (neither are OCPD's or Disconnection Means). And i think as I stepped away to conduct LIFE...others have shed light on the subject in an excellent way...;)
 
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GoldDigger said:
. . . would it still qualify as a switch?
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GROUND-FAULT CIRCUIT INTERRUPTERS (KCXS)​
The ??TEST?? and ??RESET?? buttons on the GFCIs are only intended to check for the proper functioning of the GFCI. They are not intended to be used as ??ON/OFF?? controls of motors or other loads unless the buttons are specifically marked ??ON?? and ??OFF.?? Products with ??ON?? and ??OFF?? markings have been additionally Listed under Motor Controllers, Mechanically-operated and Solid-state (NMFT).
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So, using UL's White Book wording to just ever so slightly say it another way, GFCIs "with 'ON' and 'OFF' markings . . . are . . . intended to be used as 'ON/OFF' controls of . . . loads". To me, the on/off control of a load is the very definition of a "switch".
 
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GoldDigger said:
And a trip indicator light that comes ON when the power is disconnected from the output side.
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So it seems that in NMFT these BF GFCI's have been tested for use with 1.5 HP motors. Interesting.....I see that in UL Guide NMFT now.

But still not convinced they qualify as a Disconnection means....just as a motor controller.
 
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This was brought up at NEC meetings a few years ago and UL stance was they would in-fact serve as the disconnect means for motors of 1.5hp or less, receptacle GFCI's don't need this requirement since the plug and cord already serves as the disconnect, this is why many blank face GFCI manufactures put the on and off on their buttons and had them listed as a motor disconnect.
 
If they are listed/permitted to be used as a disconnecting means, I still don't like the idea that there must be input power present before you can actually open the disconnecting means, and still question if that reason alone shouldn't disqualify using it for a disconnecting means. A receptacle is a disconnecting means because you can unplug but the feed through terminals or a blank face GFCI is not the same.

Can anyone think of any other disconnecting means that must have input power before you can operate the switch, in particular the act of opening the switch?
 
MasterTheNEC said:
So it seems that in NMFT these BF GFCI's have been tested for use with 1.5 HP motors. Interesting.....I see that in UL Guide NMFT now.

But still not convinced they qualify as a Disconnection means....just as a motor controller.
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I agree as all the UL listings are for controls.

Would a single pole Decora switch be allowed as a disconnect in the same scenario?
 
K8MHZ said:
Would a single pole Decora switch be allowed as a disconnect in the same scenario?
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Indeed not...however they also do not have "on and off" stamped on them either. Just saying....but as I stated before I don't think because a BF GFCI is evaluated as a motor controller that I am ready to label it a "disconnection means" just yet.
 
480sparky said:
Huh? So discos don't need to be labeled for their max. disconnecting ratings?
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Dude you are missing what I am saying....which is no less a fact that I am conveying it incorrectly...but still missing my point. I understand the ratings and while many switches also have these ratings. I just don't agree that a BF GFCI qualifies as a disconnection means...that's all I am saying.
 
joebell said:
I'm wondering why GFCI protection ii's being discussed to begin with? I believe the OP states 2005 NEC.
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A good question, but I think the issue is that if not a dead front GFCI, some other kind of disconnect still needs to be provided. Admittedly a snap switch is cheaper, but the DF GFCI might be considered to have added value.

Also the manufacturer's instructions may call for GFCI protection regardless of the code cycle.
 
Thanks for the ammunition when the inspector comes to look at a dishwasher I used a DF GFCI as the disconnect.

Yes, it has an on/off switch. Also, the P&S gfci's trip when first energized, but I'm not sure if they'll trip again if the power is interrupted, then restored.

Lastly, it's a Bosch which comes with a junction box and power cord, so there's two disconnects there.
 
I'm another one that will say GFCI's are not disconnects. Besides them not being able to disconnect the circuit when not energized they don't indicate if they are on or off. They have marked on an off buttons for use as a motor controller but guessing that the one button is sticking out farther than it is supposed to be is not a guarantee its off.

I install both P&S and Leviton GFCI's and have never had on trip on power up. Having a standard GFCI receptacle trip every time power is interrupted would be a very bad design.
 
The cord attached GFCI units for job site temp power are required to open when power is cut (or else when it is restored?)
I believe the idea is to require somebody to actually hit reset to determine that it is working each time it is plugged in
 
jaylectricity said:
Yes, it has an on/off switch. Also, the P&S gfci's trip when first energized, but I'm not sure if they'll trip again if the power is interrupted, then restored.
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They trip first time energized out of the box, not because it is first time energized though. As part of the line/load reversal sensing, they must have input power before they will reset. They are shipped in a tripped condition so that they can sense line load reversal first time they are connected. You can press the reset button while they are not powered and it will stay in - but will kick back out when power is applied.

If you have one that is actually in reset condition, you can reverse connect line/load and it will stay set but will not reset once it has tripped.
 
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