VFD ideas for single phase to 3 phase 240 3HP

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
A customer has a hydraulic pump motor that is wired for 480 thats moved to a single phase 120/240 location.
They ordered an enormous rotary phase converter and had it shipped out there.
There is a huge controls cab on this press and I am thinking of bringing a little VFD like this:
And fitting it in there , And just programing it to a simple 1200 RPM.
Any reason why a VFD would be bad idea on a hydraulic pump and you'd want a rotary converter?
Thanks
Pump nameplate:

IMG_20210128_163105.jpg
 

Jraef

Moderator
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
VFD is fine for a hydraulic motor. Can't say I think much of that selection though, it's a cheap Chinese no-name drive. Lots of good stuff is made in China, but when mfrs don't think to put their name on it, you have to wonder why.
 

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
Thanks everyone for the replies, open to other recommendations, defiantly dont want some no name junk. I could just de-rate a regular brand VFD thats not listed as single phase to three phase.
There is not much 'local' stock here, other than GFCI's, resi load centers and cover plates, its a ruralish area. ;)
 

Dzboyce

Senior Member
Location
Royal City, WA
Occupation
Washington 03 Electrician & plumber
Here in the pacific NW, I buy ABB from Platt. Yaskawa from Preferred Pump or Dykeman Electric. Cerus from 2M or Western Hydro. Danfoss from Mitchell, Lewis. I have ordered toshiba from Drives Warehouse. Haven’t bought anything from automation direct.
 

Jraef

Moderator
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Thanks everyone for the replies, open to other recommendations, defiantly dont want some no name junk. I could just de-rate a regular brand VFD thats not listed as single phase to three phase.
There is not much 'local' stock here, other than GFCI's, resi load centers and cover plates, its a ruralish area. ;)
MOST drives are OK with using a 3 phase drive and connecting single phase to it after de-rating the drive by at least 50% (sometimes more). Sometimes a brand will have a Phase Loss Detection feature that cannot be defeated, so you can't use those. But that issue has been going away with newer designs because those mfrs realized they were limiting their market. If you are concerned and the supplier cannot answer the question, look in the manual for the list of Faults and see if they have a Phase Loss fault, then read on how that is handled.

What part of Oregon are you in? There are North Coast stores in most areas along I-5, North Coast has A-B. In Eastern Oregon, CED has the A-B franchise for Bend and Columbia Electric has it for the Umatilla area (via Pasco), The thing with A-B distributors is that they are REQUIRED to have VFD specialist on staff in order to have the product line. Platt stores are almost everywhere in Oregon and they have access to ABB and Eaton, but may not have any local expertise in the smaller markets. I see that you asked about an ABB drive, they are good. That ACS55 version is made in China too, but under ABB's quality control.
 

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
MOST drives are OK with using a 3 phase drive and connecting single phase to it after de-rating the drive by at least 50% (sometimes more). Sometimes a brand will have a Phase Loss Detection feature that cannot be defeated, so you can't use those. But that issue has been going away with newer designs because those mfrs realized they were limiting their market. If you are concerned and the supplier cannot answer the question, look in the manual for the list of Faults and see if they have a Phase Loss fault, then read on how that is handled.

What part of Oregon are you in? There are North Coast stores in most areas along I-5, North Coast has A-B. In Eastern Oregon, CED has the A-B franchise for Bend and Columbia Electric has it for the Umatilla area (via Pasco), The thing with A-B distributors is that they are REQUIRED to have VFD specialist on staff in order to have the product line. Platt stores are almost everywhere in Oregon and they have access to ABB and Eaton, but may not have any local expertise in the smaller markets. I see that you asked about an ABB drive, they are good. That ACS55 version is made in China too, but under ABB's quality control.
Good advice, we're based out of Eugene, thanks for that breakdown. I use most all of those suppliers, but understandably none of them seem to stock a ton locally, but good info on the A-B I should tap the local expert at Northcoast.
This COVID thing has me doing allot of work from home and thus online research.
 

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
UPDATE:
So I got the ABB drive and got intouch with the motor manufacturer as they still make this motor.
And they said that since the motor is from the 70's its too old to run on a VFD and presumably I should buy a new motor.

Now my plan is not to use any VFD features, just as a phase converter, set it at 1200 RPM.
I plan to have it be triggered with an icecube relay, where the coil of the icecube is powered by the existing 120V controls.
Any thoughts/ experience on using a VFD with an old motor, like 40 years old?

Thanks all
 

ptonsparky

Senior Member
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
UPDATE:
So I got the ABB drive and got intouch with the motor manufacturer as they still make this motor.
And they said that since the motor is from the 70's its too old to run on a VFD and presumably I should buy a new motor.

Now my plan is not to use any VFD features, just as a phase converter, set it at 1200 RPM.
I plan to have it be triggered with an icecube relay, where the coil of the icecube is powered by the existing 120V controls.
Any thoughts/ experience on using a VFD with an old motor, like 40 years old?

Thanks all
A Load reactor is supposed to help.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
VFD is fine for a hydraulic motor. Can't say I think much of that selection though, it's a cheap Chinese no-name drive. Lots of good stuff is made in China, but when mfrs don't think to put their name on it, you have to wonder why.
Probably not UL listed. I'd be inclined to find a listed one. AD probably has one that is listed and not a whole lot more $.


My guess would be they can afford to sell it so cheap because they don't have to pay a whole assortment of marketing managers. :)

 
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