Volts vs Amps

[kwired]

Yeah... but ampacity is a relatively new word, coined in 1965 as I understand it, and not yet accepted as a word by all lexicographers.

learned a new word today

 

[K8MHZ]

learned a new word today

So portmanteau was a resident of your lexicon before I posted it here? I'm impressed.

 

[iwire]

Yeah... but ampacity is a relatively new word, coined in 1965 as I understand it, and not yet accepted as a word by all lexicographers.

I will take your word on that without hesitation.

 

[charlie b]

So portmanteau was a resident of your lexicon before I posted it here?

I first encountered that word about 40 years ago. Humpty Dumpty used it (he was credited as doing so as far back as 1871) as part of the explanation he gave (to a young girl named Alice) of the first verse of the poem Jabberwocky. And no, it was not during her adventures in Wonderland.

 

[kwired]

So portmanteau was a resident of your lexicon before I posted it here? I'm impressed.

Sorry my limit is one word a day, will have to learn your word tomorrow

 

[iwire]

Then life kills because you have to be alive to be killed, and you need your Mom to give you life so ultimately it is Mom who kills. Current, flowing through your heart and interrupting it's beating is what kills you. If I float in the air, holding on to a 500KVA power line, I will remain unharmed. Voltage just doesn't kill. Yes, you don't have current flow if you don't have electro motive force to propel that voltage, but then again, you don't have current if youi don't have a generation source, so you might as well say that the Hoover dam killed someone as say that voltage killed someone.

Has anyone been electrocuted by current alone?


I rest my case :thumbsup:

 

[K8MHZ]

Has anyone been electrocuted by current alone?


I rest my case :thumbsup:

It could be argued that everyone that has been electrocuted was electrocuted by current alone. Yes, the voltage was always present at some level, but it's not the effects of voltage that cause injury, it's the effects of current.

Your assertion that current can't exist without voltage is certainly true, but the mere existence of voltage will cause no harm if no current is passed.

 

[jumper]

Yeah... but ampacity is a relatively new word, coined in 1965 as I understand it, and not yet accepted as a word by all lexicographers.

Google says "In 1951, W.A Del Mar of the Phelps Dodge Wire and Cable Company coined the word"

 

[Besoeker]

Google says "In 1951, W.A Del Mar of the Phelps Dodge Wire and Cable Company coined the word"

But does explain why they thought a new word was needed when all the words required already existed?

 

[K8MHZ]

Google says "In 1951, W.A Del Mar of the Phelps Dodge Wire and Cable Company coined the word"

I would love a link to that. I could find references to Del Mar, but nothing about the year or Phelps. Thanks, that great trivia for our trade.

 

[K8MHZ]

But does explain why they thought a new word was needed when all the words required already existed?

It wasn't 'they' it was William A. Del Mar, an electrical engineer born in 1880. Here is where I found his birth date.

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=6433018

 

[jumper]

But does explain why they thought a new word was needed when all the words required already existed?

Americans are lazy is my guess. Easier to write/say "ampacity" than "current carrying capacity".

 

[jumper]

I would love a link to that. I could find references to Del Mar, but nothing about the year or Phelps. Thanks, that great trivia for our trade.

I already closed the windows. Just google it. One was some Ph.D paper and the other was a book on submarine cable. Both were foot notes and I did not look up the references.

 

[Smart $]

Google says "In 1951, W.A Del Mar of the Phelps Dodge Wire and Cable Company coined the word"

It's possible. Webster actually stated First Known Use: 1965 and I paraphrased as coined in 1965.

 

[jumper]

It's possible. Webster actually stated First Known Use: 1965 and I paraphrased as coined in 1965.

I wonder when it first appeared in the NEC?

Where's 480Sparky?

 

[Strathead]

Has anyone been electrocuted by current alone?


I rest my case :thumbsup:

Yes, everyone who has been electrocuted. And I rest mine :angel:

 

[iwire]

Yes, everyone who has been electrocuted. And I rest mine :angel:

The difference is mine is a true statement yours is not

Power is what kills and there is no power without voltage and current unless you plan to rewrite ohms law.

 

[K8MHZ]

The difference is mine is a true statement yours is not

Power is what kills and there is no power without voltage and current unless you plan to rewrite ohms law.

So you think that a given amount of watts is fatal through a path (for instance trough the heart) is going to be a fixed value no matter what the voltage or current is?

If that were the case, .001 amps at 2,000 volts would be as dangerous as .1 amps at 200 volts. Both are 20 watts.

 

[ActionDave]

It could be argued that everyone that has been electrocuted was electrocuted by current alone. Yes, the voltage was always present at some level, but it's not the effects of voltage that cause injury, it's the effects of current.

Your assertion that current can't exist without voltage is certainly true, but the mere existence of voltage will cause no harm if no current is passed.

And no current is going to pass if there is not enough voltage to drive it.

 

[K8MHZ]

And no current is going to pass if there is not enough voltage to drive it.

That's not the issue, and you are correct in that sense, of course. But it's not the effects of the voltage or the power that causes damage. It's the effects of current.

If 150 mA is fatal through a path, is the voltage going to change that? No. Will voltage be required to reach that level? Yes, but depending on the path, the voltage needed can vary from almost 0* to tens of thousands of volts. If only 5 mA passes through the same path, no matter how much voltage it takes, even tens of thousands, that 5 mA will be nearly harmless.

Yes, voltage is always present in an injury or fatality but it's not responsible for it.

*That's a hazard of IV's. It takes very little voltage through an IV in a person to cause harmful current levels.