Wagos in Motor Terminal Box

[ptonsparky]

Not listed or tested for continuous use above 450.Vac

Wago connectors

Theyre fantastic, especially where finely stranded wire is involved. Only buy them through an authorized distributor, lots of counterfeits on Amazon.

forums.mikeholt.com

Good thing I haven’t wired anything above 450 lately. Still the same principle.

 

[electrofelon]

Every project I have designed, I ALWAYS require an EGC in the conduit/raceway, no exceptions.

I still remember the busted LB with the wired hanging out. But, at least the EGC was still there.

Why do so many think that in the rare case that a raceway serving as an EGC becomes completely separated, and there is no other path back to the source, like 37 bus fulls of nuns and kittens will immediately die? If you have a smashed LB or raceway and no one fixes it, I'm guessing you have far more problems to worry about . Do you provide a redundant OCPD on all your circuits? Redundant GFCI? Why not?

 

[ptonsparky]

Why do so many think that in the rare case that a raceway serving as an EGC becomes completely separated, and there is no other path back to the source, like 37 bus fulls of nuns and kittens will immediately die? If you have a smashed LB or raceway and no one fixes it, I'm guessing you have far more problems to worry about . Do you provide a redundant OCPD on all your circuits? Redundant GFCI? Why not?

Isn’t this why A/C units were supposed to be GFCI? No Nuns, but one kid.

 

[ptonsparky]

Not listed or tested for continuous use above 450.Vac

Wago connectors

Theyre fantastic, especially where finely stranded wire is involved. Only buy them through an authorized distributor, lots of counterfeits on Amazon.

forums.mikeholt.com

 

[electrofelon]

Isn’t this why A/C units were supposed to be GFCI? No Nuns, but one kid.

Someday someone will die from a defective or improperly connected GFCI. Perhaps code should require a second GFCI.

 

[ramsy]

View attachment 2569515

UL 486C §7.2 "Current Cycling" for 1hr on 1hr off x 500 cycles takes several months, and may be rigorous, but its not a continuous-load test > 3 hrs.

The 20A rating is typically not required for lighting, and such continuous light loads may be fine at lower amp draw.

 

[ptonsparky]

UL 486C §7.2 "Current Cycling" for 1hr on 1hr off x 500 cycles takes several months, and may be rigorous, but its not a continuous-load test > 3 hrs.

The 20A rating is typically not required for lighting, and such continuous light loads may be fine at lower amp draw.

Use the 30.

 

[ramsy]

Use the 30.

Don't see continuous loads to need those yet, much less 480v in residential service, but someone who does 480v-motor maintenance should be cautious before approaching that rating.

 

[kwired]

Nut, bolt, crimp on terminals and heat shrink.

Don't like wire nuts thru. Way too many come loose unless they are taped up.

Only place I've had trouble with a wire nut (on smaller conductors anyway) in motor box is on a "shaker" motor. Didn't have trouble with then coming loose, just wearing through from all the shaking. Otherwise seldom have done any more than twist on the wire connector - no tape if conductors are all completely covered.

 

[ptonsparky]

Only place I've had trouble with a wire nut (on smaller conductors anyway) in motor box is on a "shaker" motor. Didn't have trouble with then coming loose, just wearing through from all the shaking. Otherwise seldom have done any more than twist on the wire connector - no tape if conductors are all completely covered.

Scotch pad or inner tube but they are scarce

 

[kwired]

I will admit to using a few lever nuts on 15 amp 480 volt motor circuits and related. Not certain if I will keep doing so, but kind of wanted to see how a few of these hold up over time. I haven't used any yet in the motor junction box where vibration may be more of an issue.

Only fail so far was on supply side of a VFD. The front end rectifier failed on this drive, and the lever nut apparently couldn't handle the available fault current. Drive was toast regardless though.

 

[ramsy]

I will admit to using a few lever nuts on 15 amp 480 volt motor circuits and related. Not certain if I will keep doing so

Seems like excellent supplemental testing good for 15A continuous use at 480Vac.

With 2 test standards, 1 suitable for 600Vac @ 60min intervals, Lever-Nuts seem superior to most twist on's, inner tube, or tape.

WAGO's website shows all Lever-Nuts® with 2 listing standards:
IEC (EN 60xxx), Ambient, Series, UL (486C Non-Continuous)
450v, 32A, 105°c, 85°c, 221-41x, 600v, 20A, 75°C, 30°C, #24-12awg
450v, 41A, 105°c, 85°c, 221-61x, 600v, 30A, 75°C, 30°C, #20-10awg
450v, 32A, 85°c, +40°c, 222-41x, 600v, 20A, 75°C, 30°C, #28-12awg

Your 15A continuous 480v motor only pushes half ampacity of 221-61x series, or 75% of the others.

Pushing max ampacity continuously may be risky, but your test appears informative.

 

[kwired]

Seems like excellent supplemental testing good for 15A continuous use at 480Vac.

With 2 test standards, 1 suitable for 600Vac @ 60min intervals, Lever-Nuts seem superior to most twist on's, inner tube, or tape.

WAGO's website shows all Lever-Nuts® with 2 listing standards:
IEC (EN 60xxx), Ambient, Series, UL (486C Non-Continuous)
450v, 32A, 105°c, 85°c, 221-41x, 600v, 20A, 75°C, 30°C, #24-12awg
450v, 41A, 105°c, 85°c, 221-61x, 600v, 30A, 75°C, 30°C, #20-10awg
450v, 32A, 85°c, +40°c, 222-41x, 600v, 20A, 75°C, 30°C, #28-12awg

Your 15A continuous 480v motor only pushes half ampacity of 221-61x series, or 75% of the others.

Pushing max ampacity continuously may be risky, but your test is within the limits.

By 15 amp I meant with 15 amp short circuit/ground fault protection more so than motor load. My applications were all probably 2hp or less 480 volt motors. So full load rating of about 3.5 amp and less.

 

[ramsy]

So full load rating of about 3.5 amp and less.

Ok, I will curb my enthusiasm down to 3.5 Amps.

 

[SceneryDriver]

We do install work on cruise ships. Specifically, scenery and lighting for themed guest areas, as well as scenery for the shows in the main theater onboard. We only use Wago 221's; in fact, you'll get tossed off the ship along with your scenery if the Chief Electrician of his staff catch you using wire nuts. Their use onboard ships is absolutely forbidden; ships vibrate, and when wirenuts loosen, fires can start. Fires on ships are VERY bad.

I use them all the time to connect small motors in the shop (up to 30A with the new large version), and have never had a problem. The only issue I've seen is when someone nicks the conductor strands when they strip them, and the damaged strands fatigue and break.


SceneryDriver

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Only place I've had trouble with a wire nut (on smaller conductors anyway) in motor box is on a "shaker" motor. Didn't have trouble with then coming loose, just wearing through from all the shaking. Otherwise seldom have done any more than twist on the wire connector - no tape if conductors are all completely covered.

All of the specs for industrial motors on shaker equipment where the motor moved along with the equipment, required us to completely pack the motor terminal box with duct seal to prevent any movement of the conductors in the terminal box.

 

[ptonsparky]

All of the specs for industrial motors on shaker equipment where the motor moved along with the equipment, required us to completely pack the motor terminal box with duct seal to prevent any movement of the conductors in the terminal box.

I like that.

 

[kwired]

All of the specs for industrial motors on shaker equipment where the motor moved along with the equipment, required us to completely pack the motor terminal box with duct seal to prevent any movement of the conductors in the terminal box.

That is essentially what I ended up doing, not duct seal but stuffed it with fiberglass insulation, was all I could brainstorm at the time, but it worked.