Wagos vs Wire nuts

Besoeker3

Senior Member
Location
UK
I herd the British tried wire nuts at one time but they kept twisting them to the left ( counter clockwise). :rotflmao::rotflmao::jawdrop:



It's a joke.
Very good! But heard that it was the Chinese who do that. You know like they write right to left and sometimes from bottom to top.

Slightly more seriously and, as you probably know, I worked in the industrial sector. Our customers were mostly large companies. Standards were more onerous than for residential or commercial.
All the terminals had to be like the Klippon type I showed earlier and have ident numbering. The conductors also had to be numbered and have crimped lugs. Bare wire going into a terminal was a no-no.
 

Tony S

Senior Member
Originally fire nuts were marketed in the UK as Screwits, as an apprentice I refused to use them. They fell in to disuse as unreliable.

Many moons later an attempt to reintroduce them failed miserably. They would never meet the requirements of BS7671.
 

SceneryDriver

Senior Member
Location
New York, NY
We do lots of work installing lighting on cruise ships. The cruise lines will not accept wire nuts on anything. The Chief Electrician will not even let them on the ship in most cases. They've had a bad time in the past with vibration loosening them and causing failures: fire=bad onboard a ship. They will accept (and frankly love) the Wago Lever-Nuts. My techs like them too - much faster in the field, and great for troubleshooting.

They're also a fan of the spring cage clamp -style terminal blocks for control panel work. We use tons of PT -series terminal blocks from Phoenix Contact for that reason.



SceneryDriver
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
:happyno:
They are far from a back stab, here's why...
I have dissected them and there is a lot more clamping area on the Wago vs a back stab connection
The Wago spring clamp is a lot stronger than a back stab
On a back stab, (mostly on receptacles) the wire is subject to move every time something gets plugged in & unplugged, after a while this will loosen the connection and it will either pull out or heat up from high resistance.

With a Wago, the connection is not on the receptacle. You wrap the wire around the screw, or in a pressure clamp just like normal. When you plug/unplug something you are not disturbing the wire where it enters the Wago. So you can push/pull all you want on the plug and it won't affect the connection in the Wago. That's unlike what happens with a back stab, as you are pushing/pulling on the receptacle and the wire connection is directly on the receptacle.

Only failure I've seen with a Wago was "operator failure". And that was my install. Luckily I caught it when I energized the circuit. I just didn't have it pushed all the way in. I've been using them for nearly 10 years and no problems other than my mistake.

Note: Wago is a brand and there are other good mfg of them such as Ideal Push-ins, FPR (Gardner Bender).

I have found a new toy that I like even better than the push-in connectors. It is "Lever nuts" made by Wago. You raise a lever and insert the wire, then push the lever back down. You can feel the strength of the spring when you pull the lever up. They are especially handy when on a ladder trying to hang a light. Sometimes its difficult to hold the light and put a wire nut on the wires. With the Lever nuts, you can use one hand to both insert the wire and push the lever back down. It's best to raise the lever before going up the ladder or before you attempt to hold the light to connect the wires. Then all you have to do is insert the wire and push the lever down.

Back stab receptacle also can have strain on the termination from pushing the device into the box. Was even worse when they used to accept 12 AWG conductors in the back stab ports.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
*
We do lots of work installing lighting on cruise ships. The cruise lines will not accept wire nuts on anything. The Chief Electrician will not even let them on the ship in most cases. They've had a bad time in the past with vibration loosening them and causing failures: fire=bad onboard a ship. They will accept (and frankly love) the Wago Lever-Nuts. My techs like them too - much faster in the field, and great for troubleshooting.

They're also a fan of the spring cage clamp -style terminal blocks for control panel work. We use tons of PT -series terminal blocks from Phoenix Contact for that reason.



SceneryDriver
But wouldn't twisting them correctly prevent that?
 

winnie

Senior Member
This is a DIY answer (my electrical _work_ is in research, not home wiring). In my own home I vastly prefer the Wago 221 Lever-Nuts https://www.wago.com/us/lp-221

The wire is gripped firmly. You can easily see that the conductors are properly seated. The bundle of wires below the connector is easier to manage because it isn't bundled up. Adding another conductor is easy, and rework is easy.

-Jon
 

Besoeker3

Senior Member
Location
UK
Originally fire nuts were marketed in the UK as Screwits, as an apprentice I refused to use them. They fell in to disuse as unreliable.

Many moons later an attempt to reintroduce them failed miserably. They would never meet the requirements of BS7671.
Yes. I think we called them Scruits. They were ceramic when I first came across them. But for control wiring, we used DIN rail screw down type terminals. We usually got them from Europa Components. They had/have the best prices for industrial electrical hardware. Terminals, fuses, relays, push buttons, contactors etc.

Just for the mods, I have no financial tie up with that company so I'm not promoting them for any financial reward. And they were convenient for me - they were on my route between home and office.
 

iceworm

Curmudgeon still using printed IEEE Color Books
Location
North of the 65 parallel
Occupation
EE (Field - as little design as possible)
ideal wing nuts, no pre-twist
3port and 4port wagos (or equivalent)
I like the wagos for the bonding conductors and the neutrals

I've been putting a lot of 4"sq with a 2g mud ring, 2 - duplex receptacles (remodel to early 60s house). A 5-port wago for the grounds would be nice. I haven't seen on yet.
 

SceneryDriver

Senior Member
Location
New York, NY
But wouldn't twisting them correctly prevent that?
You'd think so, but the European shipyards we work with certainly don't agree. Wire nuts are definitely a N. American thing.

Between the wire nuts we use, delta power, and lack of EMC compliance and testing, the rest of the world looks at us like we're a bunch of electrical savages :D



SceneryDriver
 

iceworm

Curmudgeon still using printed IEEE Color Books
Location
North of the 65 parallel
Occupation
EE (Field - as little design as possible)
...the world looks at us like we're a bunch of electrical savages ...
Well, we are. And your point is?

...Between the wire nuts we use, delta power, and lack of EMC compliance and testing, ...
And don't forget:
2-phase
MGN
NEC 250.4
LV systems in use​
120
120/240
120/208 (which actually is 2-phase)
208/120Y
240D ungrounded
240D corner grounded (never seen this one)
240/120D CT grounded
480D ungrounded
480D corner grounded
480D CT grounded (never seen this one)
480Y grounded (the CBs for this one may not be suitable for the other five 480V systems)
480Y HRG
575Y (I've only seen one of these that wasn't Canadian)
I don't know where 2phase fits in here
Really - 13 different systems ??​
60Hz (I wouldn't mind 50HZ with 20ms/cycle)
25 ohms or less
TN-C-S (Yep - all those ground rods benefit the power company. Marginally useful for the consumer)

So, how did Europe get ahead of us?

Well, we did not get the snot bombed out of us. Europe had to rebuild.


So thinketh

the worm
 
Well, we are. And your point is?


And don't forget:
2-phase
MGN
NEC 250.4
LV systems in use​
120
120/240
120/208 (which actually is 2-phase)
208/120Y
240D ungrounded
240D corner grounded (never seen this one)
240/120D CT grounded
480D ungrounded
480D corner grounded
480D CT grounded (never seen this one)
480Y grounded (the CBs for this one may not be suitable for the other five 480V systems)
480Y HRG
575Y (I've only seen one of these that wasn't Canadian)
I don't know where 2phase fits in here
Really - 13 different systems ??​
60Hz (I wouldn't mind 50HZ with 20ms/cycle)
25 ohms or less
TN-C-S (Yep - all those ground rods benefit the power company. Marginally useful for the consumer)

So, how did Europe get ahead of us?

Well, we did not get the snot bombed out of us. Europe had to rebuild.


So thinketh

the worm
575 and 995 vac are common mining voltages not found anywhere else. I've worked on some wind turbines that were 690 vac. I know there are others...

In order to keep this thread on track, Wago lever nuts all the way!
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
I've been putting a lot of 4"sq with a 2g mud ring, 2 - duplex receptacles (remodel to early 60s house). A 5-port wago for the grounds would be nice. I haven't seen on yet.
Line in, line out, receptacle, receptacle, box? Why not use one of the line wires on the box screw?
 

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
*
Well, we are. And your point is?


And don't forget:
2-phase
MGN
NEC 250.4
LV systems in use​
120
120/240
120/208 (which actually is 2-phase)
208/120Y
240D ungrounded
240D corner grounded (never seen this one)
240/120D CT grounded
480D ungrounded
480D corner grounded
480D CT grounded (never seen this one)
480Y grounded (the CBs for this one may not be suitable for the other five 480V systems)
480Y HRG
575Y (I've only seen one of these that wasn't Canadian)
I don't know where 2phase fits in here
Really - 13 different systems ??​
60Hz (I wouldn't mind 50HZ with 20ms/cycle)
25 ohms or less
TN-C-S (Yep - all those ground rods benefit the power company. Marginally useful for the consumer)

So, how did Europe get ahead of us?

Well, we did not get the snot bombed out of us. Europe had to rebuild.


So thinketh

the worm
I'm sure you left some stuff out like 138/240Y :lol::lol:


High voltage is even worse:

2,400 delta

2400/4160Y

4,800 delta

2400/4160Y

4800/8320Y

4160/7200Y

7200 delta

11,500 delta

6,639/11,500Y

12,000 delta

12,470 delta

7200/12470Y

7621/13200Y

13200 delta

13800 delta

7967/13800Y

14,400 delta

8313/14,400Y

16,340 uni grounded wye

11,500/20,000Y

20,000 delta

12470/20784Y

22860 delta

13200/22860Y

23,000 delta

25,000 delta

26,400 delta

15,000/26400Y

27,600 delta

15,934/27600Y

14400/24900Y

28,000 delta

30,000 delta

17,320/30,000Y

33,000 delta

34500 delta

19920/34500Y

(I know I missed a few, but off the top of my head)

AC Sub transmission / Transmission:

44kv, 46kv, 66kv, 69kv, 88kv 100kv, 115kv, 138kv, 161kv, 230kv, 345kv, 500kv 765kv

Again, I'm sure a left a few out. :lol:


UK:

11kv, 33kv, 132kv, 400kv

Some 6.6kv and 275kv legacy.

Europe:

11kv, 22kv, 33kv, 110kv, 132kv, 220kv, 400kv

Some 10kv and 20kv in the Eastern parts
 

kec

Member
Location
CT
:happyno:
They are far from a back stab, here's why...
I have dissected them and there is a lot more clamping area on the Wago vs a back stab connection
The Wago spring clamp is a lot stronger than a back stab
On a back stab, (mostly on receptacles) the wire is subject to move every time something gets plugged in & unplugged, after a while this will loosen the connection and it will either pull out or heat up from high resistance.

With a Wago, the connection is not on the receptacle. You wrap the wire around the screw, or in a pressure clamp just like normal. When you plug/unplug something you are not disturbing the wire where it enters the Wago. So you can push/pull all you want on the plug and it won't affect the connection in the Wago. That's unlike what happens with a back stab, as you are pushing/pulling on the receptacle and the wire connection is directly on the receptacle.

Only failure I've seen with a Wago was "operator failure". And that was my install. Luckily I caught it when I energized the circuit. I just didn't have it pushed all the way in. I've been using them for nearly 10 years and no problems other than my mistake.

Note: Wago is a brand and there are other good mfg of them such as Ideal Push-ins, FPR (Gardner Bender).

I have found a new toy that I like even better than the push-in connectors. It is "Lever nuts" made by Wago. You raise a lever and insert the wire, then push the lever back down. You can feel the strength of the spring when you pull the lever up. They are especially handy when on a ladder trying to hang a light. Sometimes its difficult to hold the light and put a wire nut on the wires. With the Lever nuts, you can use one hand to both insert the wire and push the lever back down. It's best to raise the lever before going up the ladder or before you attempt to hold the light to connect the wires. Then all you have to do is insert the wire and push the lever down.

Staying on track......
I'm with Bill on this. I like them especially on installing fixtures with stranded wire. How many times have we twisted a w nut with stranded wire only to have it come loose when you push it back into the JB
Also they work well for wire management in wall boxes. Wago's are slimmer then w nuts.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Electrician
ideal wing nuts, no pre-twist
3port and 4port wagos (or equivalent)
I like the wagos for the bonding conductors and the neutrals

I've been putting a lot of 4"sq with a 2g mud ring, 2 - duplex receptacles (remodel to early 60s house). A 5-port wago for the grounds would be nice. I haven't seen on yet.
Ideal Push-in connectors has a 6-port push-in. Wago Lever nut has a 5-port. They may have a 6, but not for sure, they do have a 5 because I have some.
 

Srv52761

Member
Location
lowa
A tangential question...
I am only familiar with Wago brand connectors. Are there other similar quality brands? I saw another on amazon at 1/3 the price, but had spotty reviews. Wire connections is not a place for spotty reviews...
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Electrician
A tangential question...
I am only familiar with Wago brand connectors. Are there other similar quality brands? I saw another on amazon at 1/3 the price, but had spotty reviews. Wire connections is not a place for spotty reviews...
I've used:
Wago - https://www.wago.com/us/discover-wire-and-splicing-connectors
Ideal - https://www.idealindustries.ca/products/electrical/wire-termination/push-in.html
F4P - https://www.f4p-usa.com/connectors-grounding/push-in-connectors

These are all about the same in quality. I've seen some "no name" brands that I wouldn't trust. I've had zero problems with these brands.

Also, I was wrong, at least for Ideal & F4P, they have up to an 8-port connector.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
How many times have we twisted a w nut with stranded wire only to have it come loose when you push it back into the JB
If you don't mind an actual response, never since I was a helper. I taught myself to first twist all stranded wires together (if more than one) to make a thicker single conductor, and to strip the stranded wire(s) just enough longer to bend over the other wires, but not enough to fill up the tip of the wirenut (which trashes the wirenut).

I use my left-hand fingers to not only hold the wires while twisting, but to also make sure no wires either advance or retreat as I twist, so the compressed bundle inside the wirenut looks just as it did when I last saw it. The main thing is that, as I make every joint or termination, I mentally say "this connection will not be the one that fails."
 
I’ve soldered, high pressed, hand crimped, wire nut, split bolt, and used mechanical lugs to join wires together. They all work fine if you follow the instructions for intended application. Your responsibility is to make sure that your connections are sound. If you can’t stand behind your work, slow down ask for the product you trust and become as efficient as you can in its installation.
The “right” connector is as good as the guy installing it.
I’ve thrown out wire nuts/scotch locks/ rat condoms/ Wago/ and ballast disconnects.
Those batches removed from the job were faulty and we were not able to make good connections.
All manufactured products have a quality check and sometimes stuff is missed.

No rework is good work!




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