Washer makes lights dance

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Smash

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Philadelphia suburbs, PA USA
Well this is a new one for me. Everytime the washer goes into wash mode lights dance to the agitator. I assumed ground issue and the customer had no ground rod and a lot of corrosion built up inside his old original panel. Rang the line it was a dedicated 20 amp circuit. I installed a GFCI receptacle no help. Replaced 200amp panel grounded same and drove two rods. Same problem and it happens no matter where I plug in. Has to be the washer at this point. Am I missing something ?
 
My brother in law just had a new home built.
Every time the treadmill was used the basement lights would react in a similar "dancing " way.(LED recessed trims"

I looked at it briefly and noticed it was not on the same circuit but on the same phase.

I offered to troubleshoot but he insisted on the Contractor who did the work fix it.

I will ask him what was found, and how it was corrected.

Only the basement lights reacted to the treadmill
 
Cheap LED lights are subject to voltage fluctuations and will be noticeable in the light output.

On top of that many washers these days have electronically driven motors/controllers with variable speeds and relatively high torque at low speeds compared to older induction motors that were common on these appliances. These drives tend to draw power from the peaks of the supply voltage chopping up the waveform, this distortion can effect other items , especially the already low draw LED lighting where a small change in input conditions has an impact on their output. Every time the agitator reverses the motor is likely drawing a fairly high peak current even if not for very long. Having the LED light on same branch circuit likely gives the worst results of light flickering/dimming, but could also have impact on feeder, service or even on the supply transformer itself. Smaller transformer may very well see more effect than a larger transformer as it will normally have a higher impedance.
 
Anyone ever hear of a washer problem causing this problem. I’ve tried multiple outlets both sides of the incoming dedicated GFCI receptacle same thing. On wash cycle lights dance to the beat. No idea at this point. Collecting 2K for the new service should be fun.
synchro said:
Are the lights on a mechanical switch, or are they on an electronic switch or dimmer?
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Garage door light does it, undercounter lights a couple of recessed lights as well as bathroom.
 
kwired said:
Cheap LED lights are subject to voltage fluctuations and will be noticeable in the light output.

On top of that many washers these days have electronically driven motors/controllers with variable speeds and relatively high torque at low speeds compared to older induction motors that were common on these appliances. These drives tend to draw power from the peaks of the supply voltage chopping up the waveform, this distortion can effect other items , especially the already low draw LED lighting where a small change in input conditions has an impact on their output. Every time the agitator reverses the motor is likely drawing a fairly high peak current even if not for very long. Having the LED light on same branch circuit likely gives the worst results of light flickering/dimming, but could also have impact on feeder, service or even on the supply transformer itself. Smaller transformer may very well see more effect than a larger transformer as it will normally have a higher impedance.
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Nothing is on the same circuit it’s a dedicated 20Amp line. The washer stuff makes sense but why after having it for 2 years did this problem start.
 
Smash said:
Nothing is on the same circuit it’s a dedicated 20Amp line. The washer stuff makes sense but why after having it for 2 years did this problem start.
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This is the first mention of the problem starting after two years. At this point I might try an isolation transformer to feed the washer and see if the problem clears. But it is apparent that something in the washer electronics has changed. A failed filter capacitor?
 
The lights don’t really dim or flicker they basically dance keep time with the washer agitator. It does not appear to be a draw on the circuit just dances is the only word that comes to mind. There’s a rinse cycle that agitates and the washer sounds like it’s doing the same back and forth but the lights don’t dance only on wash cycle.
 
Smash said:
The lights don’t really dim or flicker they basically dance keep time with the washer agitator. It does not appear to be a draw on the circuit just dances is the only word that comes to mind. There’s a rinse cycle that agitates and the washer sounds like it’s doing the same back and forth but the lights don’t dance only on wash cycle.
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I didn't see an answer to the question about the lights being controlled by a dimmer. If so, or if any other remote controlled switching is involved, then RF (Radio Frequency) stull likely in involved. If the washer electronics has a failed filter circuit, it could be emitting RF that is playing with the lights. I'm obviously spit-balling here, but you've eliminated pretty much everything else.
 
Smash said:
On wash cycle lights dance to the beat. No idea at this point. Collecting 2K for the new service should be fun.

Garage door light does it, undercounter lights a couple of recessed lights as well as bathroom.
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Are all of these LED lights? It's possible that the internal driver circuitry of LED lights is misinterpreting interference from the washer as a dimming waveform and therefore causing the light intensity to vary. You might try incadescent bulbs to check whether they also show this "dancing" effect.

OldSparks said:
This is the first mention of the problem starting after two years. At this point I might try an isolation transformer to feed the washer and see if the problem clears. But it is apparent that something in the washer electronics has changed. A failed filter capacitor?
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Yes, perhaps capacitors on the DC bus of a VFD inside of the washer have gone bad and there's excessive voltage ripple as a result. And then the higher current drawn when the motor reverses might pull the bus voltage even lower and make the ripple visible on the lights at those times. Just a guess.
 
Bottom line is it doesn't take much of a disturbance on input line to effect many the inexpensive LED lamps out there, and we keep getting more loads that can cause some sort of interference with them as well.

Modern direct drive washers are starting/stopping pretty frequently when in agitation mode. Washers of years ago only started at beginning of a cycle and the agitation action was handled by the transmission while the motor ran at full speed throughout the cycle. This alone is going to put varying conditions on the circuit, feeder, service. May not be as severe as a AC compressor starting, but that compressor doesn't start ever second or two either so it doesn't get the same attention/reaction.
 
It has noting to do with grounding or GFCIs, so stop wasting time and money on them.

I would first suspect that a service neutral neutral issue is starting to make itself known.
 
220316-2148 EDT

Smash:

Get a 15 W 120 tungsten filament bulb, and socket with leads that plug into an outlet, and another with probes or clips of some sort.

At the washer plug in this bulb and observe its flashing. Go to the main panel and with probes connect to the actual input wires coming into the main panel, and observe the flicker. Do this test on both incoming phases. Compare these results with the flicker at the washer.

I expect maximum flicker at the washer. At the main panel I would expect no, or very little flicker on the opposite phase. If power company wiring is good to the input of the main panel, then I expect reduced flickering, or virtually none at this point on the phase the washer is on.

For an incandescent bulb to produce noticeable flicker at 120 V there needs to be a 1 to 2 V change.

Provide some feedback.

.
 
All good stuff so ty in advance. It’s multiple lights both incandescent as in the garage opener light, also two dimmed recessed lights also incandescent, and kitchen undercounter lights older 12V these are just the things they have noticed. It’s an older couple so wash done while at home so this is what there noticing. He mentioned today that the 2nd floor bathroom light was doing the same thing. I had first looked and troubleshot this job about 3 weeks ago. After this and that and GFCI I ran a cord to another receptacle and all was fine. He never told me it was happening again as they used the cord I provided until the service got done today. I found out mid day that it was happening everytime. Finished the service grounding etc and here we are. End of a long day I tried different receptacles on different phases same result. I have a feeling it is all lighting throughout. One little note I do get fluctuating voltage cold water ground wire to earth ground (probe in dirt) not much like 1.76 volts but it’s constantly changing. Going back tomorrow. I’m ready to run a cord to the neighbors house if his lights dance case dismissed get a new washer. The Washer is a little over two years old problem first started about a month ago.
 
Smash said:
All good stuff so ty in advance. It’s multiple lights both incandescent as in the garage opener light, also two dimmed recessed lights also incandescent, and kitchen undercounter lights older 12V these are just the things they have noticed. It’s an older couple so wash done while at home so this is what there noticing. He mentioned today that the 2nd floor bathroom light was doing the same thing. I had first looked and troubleshot this job about 3 weeks ago. After this and that and GFCI I ran a cord to another receptacle and all was fine. He never told me it was happening again as they used the cord I provided until the service got done today. I found out mid day that it was happening everytime. Finished the service grounding etc and here we are. End of a long day I tried different receptacles on different phases same result. I have a feeling it is all lighting throughout. One little note I do get fluctuating voltage cold water ground wire to earth ground (probe in dirt) not much like 1.76 volts but it’s constantly changing. Going back tomorrow. I’m ready to run a cord to the neighbors house if his lights dance case dismissed get a new washer. The Washer is a little over two years old problem first started about a month ago.
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One other quick thing the 200A underground meter cabinet line side had loosened over the years with some melting of the black protective sleeve over the lugs. Was able to tighten both and voltage is fine. Starting to wonder about under load what’s going on out there. Again seems ok but maybe it has broken down the factory jumpers from main incoming lugs to line side meter lugs
 
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