WATER HEATERS

[jimwalker]

Just who should and could replace a electric water heater.What gives either trade the right to do the others trade.Sould the plumber mis wire we could have a fire or shock hazard.If the EC does this ,he might create a leak.Where would the liability insurance stand on this.
I know i just opened the can of worms.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: WATER HEATERS

Both trades must be involved

 

[bthielen]

Re: WATER HEATERS

Ryan,

Am I understanding you correctly that should I need a new electric water heater and I hire the supplier to install it, they could not make the wire connections unless they had an electrical license? I'm assuming this would be correct but would like your clarification. Wonder how often this is actually followed?

Bob

 

[ryan_618]

Re: WATER HEATERS

In my state, electricians cannot do plumbing and plumbers can not do electrical. I'm not saying it always happens that way though.

There is a license for "handyman" which allows a person to do anything as long as the price, labor and materials, does not exceed X dollars ($1,000?). This frightens me a bit because there is no limitation, as long as it doesn't exceed the dollar amount (like service changes )

I have always been concerned about a jack of all trades and master of none.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: WATER HEATERS

That is why i posted this.Seems the rules change from state to stae and county to county.Some don't require a permit and some allow plumbers to do the job.I inquired in a county south of me when i first got my masters, looked like a possible good beginning till i buid up my base.Was told only plumbers could and no permit.There reasoning was that if they require 2 permits and both trades that we would end up with handymen doing the work.Would hate to see handymen doing jobs under $1000 they could replace service one week next week rewire livingroom next week------------

 

[bill addiss]

Re: WATER HEATERS

There is a license for "handyman" which allows a person to do anything as long as the price, labor and materials, does not exceed X dollars ($1,000?)

Ryan,

Wow! That doesn't sound like a good situation. Are there work experience requirements and examinations involved to get that?

Back to the subject. In my area I believe there is a restricted Electrical License that allows Plumbers, Oil Burner Mechanics & HVAC guys to make the connections within their equipment, or maybe from the loadside of the (adjacent) disconnect. They can't run a new circuit or anything like that. This is something they have to apply and test for, it's not included with a regular Plumbing License.

Bill

 

[jimwalker]

Re: WATER HEATERS

Bill ,that would make me feel a lot safer.Wish we had handyman licenses with endorcements to do certain jobs.Handymen here just do what they think they can get away with,and thats a lot.

 

[bennie]

Re: WATER HEATERS

Is there any stats about problems with individuals other than journeynman electricians reconnecting a new water heater?

I would think this does not require a degree. A plumber that can not correctly reconnect a water heater can not find his way to work anyway.

I am posting this in jest, but let's be practical.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: WATER HEATERS

And just how many electricians couldn't cut and reconnect cpvc or copper lines.Both take min. skills, and the orange store sells all the pieces including flex line kits.Don't forget to buy the pluming made easy book ,it is right next to the wire your own home book.LOL

 

[ryan_618]

Re: WATER HEATERS

And lets not forget the fact that are are other requirements for plumbing as well. Just to name a few:

If you increased the BTU input, you will need to:
1) Verify proper combustion air into the space and verify if it is confined space or unusualy tight construction.
2) Provide seismic bracing for the tank.
3) Verify that the type B or type L vent will accomadate.
4) Determine whether or not you will need single wall or double wall.
5) Determine if you will need an expansion tank.
6) Determine if the t&p is set right.

Maybe I'm being too mean, but if you don't know whats involved in changing a water heater in a compliant manner, I would invite you to learn a little more about it before stating that "an electrician can cut some cpvc".

 

[iwire]

Re: WATER HEATERS

I'm with you Ryan, I don't want the plumbers doing my job and they don't need me trying to do theirs.

"Electric work is easy, just watch the TV shows and you too can do it."

We all know that is BS and once you really learn this trade you find a lot more to it than white to white black to black.

The same can certainly be said of the plumbing trade.

In this state a homeowner can not legally do their own plumbing, they can pull an electrical permit, go figure.

 

[bennie]

Re: WATER HEATERS

I think this is an electric water heater.

Should a 65 dollar an hour electrician be required to connect the heater, then the heaters will be cord and plug connected.

I am for keeping all legitimate work for electricians, but I also like to protect the consumer. This is because I are one

 

[iwire]

Re: WATER HEATERS

I understand what you are saying Bennie.

Lets say the plumber sold them a larger water heater, does the average plumber know how to determine if the old circuit will have the capacity for the new heater.

Maybe you are right and they should be cord and plug connected. I am for saving the homeowner some money too.

 

[speedypetey]

Re: WATER HEATERS

In my area plumbers can hold "limited" electrical licenses. They can replace water heaters, wire boilers, etc. In fact I have seen some boilers wired by plumbers that look better than some electricians I know!

 

[bennie]

Re: WATER HEATERS

Bob: Remember this is a domestic heater. A 30 amp circuit will supply a 7.2 KW heating element. I don't think a domestic heater has larger than a 4.5 KW element.

There is not a lot that can go wrong when connecting the 3 wires. Reversal of the line is not in the equation. Connecting a line conductor to the ground terminal may pose a problem unless the heater is grounded by the piping.

I removed and connected many heaters for my father, who was a plumbing contractor, the only problem I encountered was getting paid.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: WATER HEATERS

Bennie: I understand and appreciate what you are saying. I myself am a big beleiver in professional licensure. If you are as well, where do we draw the line on what electrical can be done by a plumber and vice-versa?

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: WATER HEATERS

I'm with Bennie on this.
I would think that a licensed plumber could handle the task of re-doing the connection properly on a water heater replacement.
He's not changing the circut in any way.
He's not changing the service or adding the circut.
I would call a plumber to run a new water line for me, but I know that I can handle replacing my kitchen faucet.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: WATER HEATERS

I believe i have seen elements as high as 5500
Ever see any on #12 nm with out ground? plumber replaces that 20 gal 2kw with this 40 gal 5500.
I have built about 20 homes from ground up in my lifetime and can do plumbing good enough to pass inspections.Residential water heaters are usually no brainers sitting in corner of a garage floor.The pressure relief usually already in it,just add pipe for it.Yes the wiring is equally simple.If the plumber is not licensed for electric and homeowner gets shocked or killed will his insurance pay?

 

[bennie]

Re: WATER HEATERS

I don't have a good answer, Ryan. On a public domain, commercial or money making projects, I am for work jurisdiction separation, and proper licenses.

On a man's home, I have a different perspective.
To have freedom within our own castle, there may be some sacrifices. The moat is dangerous when filled with alligators. But it keeps out the marauders. Everything is a trade off.

 

[tonyi]

Re: WATER HEATERS

My complaint would be that many plumbers don't know how to install a wire nut in a manner that actually makes a good connection.