water well & light/receptacle

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Here is the way I see the variations from worst to best:

1. Recep and light tapped off a hot and the EGC, with no OCPD (we dont know if breaker is a 30, maybe it is a 20).
2. Recep and light tapped off a hot and the EGC with OCPD
3. Uf supplies 240-120/240 transformer

I am pretty sure #3 wasnt in the budget. Really I dont see any significant safety issue with #1 or #2. I wouldnt do it professionally of course, but I wouldn't even think twice about doing it at my house. #2 was almost code compliant a few cycles ago ;)
 
JDB3 said:
What does "SDS" stand for?
I just found out that a water softner will be install inside the well house. I have just heard of 1 that does not require electrical connection, the rest are 120 volt that i know of.
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Most are not 120 volt but rather are low voltage that is derived from a "wall wart" power supply from 120 volts.

Your typical household water softeners don't need power to soften water but they often do have a timer or water usage monitor that also drives water solenoid valves to "regenerate" the system. Many of those could be battery powered and still get the job done.
 
Little Bill said:
SDS = separately derived system
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Interesting situation. Lets suppose the whole thing goes to code enforcement the well contractor just jot a 5000 fine for doing unlicensed work and now the licensed electrician gets slapped with a strongly worded warning but since he is on the job he gets to fix it :D.
We have a 240V feeder with an ECG to the well house (no neutral), lets say the AHJ (that's us BTW) will allow this to stay. Could he (the OP) use say as kwired says in #3 a 240 -> 120 control transformer create a 120V branch circuit?
Or as Dzboyce pointed out do we even need 120V circuits ? Just crate a 240V only feeder panel?
Can he have a 240V only panel? 240V led lights, 240V heater? Is a 120V GFCI required to service the well? 210.63 does not include well pumps.
He could get a 240V 'wall wort' for the water softerner ....
 
Unless you can get away from calling it a dwelling accessory building (with power), 210.52(G)(2) will require at least one 15/20 amp 120 volt receptacle in this building.

NEC does not say how many VA that receptacle must be able to supply, so that leaves us, in a case with a SDS, to decide whether we can supply it with a 50-100 VA transformer making it useless for many things or if we should have at least 2400 VA if there is a 20 amp circuit - the full 20 amp capacity, or settle on something like 1000 - 1500 VA that will likely work for most things that get used in there.
 
The well guys (on one of the wells), ran UF to well location (I will verify if it is #10 or #8 {black, white, bare}) and connected it to a 60 amp breaker. At the well they install a Homeline 6 circuit panel with 2 2 pole 30's & 1 1 pole 20.
30 for the well, 30 for something else (will check on that), 20 for the receptacle for the transformer for water softer. I will take pictures to post it to "Believe It OR Not". A spider would be embarrassed!!
 
I just tried to review the Texas pump installers licensing regulations. It appears to me that the pump installer is operating way outside of his licensed scope of work. It does not appear that a Texas pump installers license authorizes the licensee to wire a pump house.

Different states have different regulations. I operate in Washington state. I am licensed as a specialty electrician and plumber. Washington has two pump specialty licenses. The 03A licensee may only extend a branch circuit provided and installed by others. They cannot make the wire connection inside the fuse box or breaker panel, let alone install it. They are limited to a maximum horsepower of 7 1/2 and single phase service only. The 03 licensee may do any work related to pumps or irrigation. That is the license I hold. I can install a service, any panel boards and any wiring related to a pump or irrigation system. I cannot wire any other type of auxiliary structure, but I can and do all wiring in a pump house. All work is permitted and inspected by the AHJ.
 
Dzboyce said:
I just tried to review the Texas pump installers licensing regulations. It appears to me that the pump installer is operating way outside of his licensed scope of work. It does not appear that a Texas pump installers license authorizes the licensee to wire a pump house.

Different states have different regulations. I operate in Washington state. I am licensed as a specialty electrician and plumber. Washington has two pump specialty licenses. The 03A licensee may only extend a branch circuit provided and installed by others. They cannot make the wire connection inside the fuse box or breaker panel, let alone install it. They are limited to a maximum horsepower of 7 1/2 and single phase service only. The 03 licensee may do any work related to pumps or irrigation. That is the license I hold. I can install a service, any panel boards and any wiring related to a pump or irrigation system. I cannot wire any other type of auxiliary structure, but I can and do all wiring in a pump house. All work is permitted and inspected by the AHJ.
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THAT is one of the problems of working in areas that have no inspections :(, unless some individual request it from the state (not sure how that works) or gets a licensed individual to do an inspection.
 
Here I am pretty certain the well guys can only run the submersible cable within the well casing, maybe extended to an adjacent junction box, control box, etc. but that is it, unless they also have an electrical license. We have a lot of farm wells that are in places that are exempted from electrical permits though. Technically even though there is no permit, the law still says they can't do any wiring (aside from submersible cable inside the well case) if they don't have an electrical license, but sometimes they do exactly what OP of this thread says and run supply wiring accessory wiring, etc. to well pits or sheds. Many times utilizing the EGC as a neutral for 120 volt circuits just like in OP.
 
JDB3 said:
The well guys (on one of the wells), ran UF to well location (I will verify if it is #10 or #8 {black, white, bare}) and connected it to a 60 amp breaker. At the well they install a Homeline 6 circuit panel with 2 2 pole 30's & 1 1 pole 20.
30 for the well, 30 for something else (will check on that), 20 for the receptacle for the transformer for water softer. I will take pictures to post it to "Believe It OR Not". A spider would be embarrassed!!
Click to expand...
They went above my expectations. A six circuit panel with CBs is overkill compared to most.
 
Water well pump installation work has historically been a sort of grey area. And still is in many areas. Very few electrical contractors have the specialized hoists to install pumps in wells. And actually the work is as much plumbing work as it is electrical work.

im really glad that Washington state brought pump installers into the fold do to speak 10 years ago. Pump Inslallers are now licensed specialty electricians AND plumbers. There are two licenses the 03 pump and irrigation, and 03A domestic pump installation. We have a limited scope of work. We pull permits. We install to the NEC and UPC codes. and the electrical work is inspected by the AHJ, which is state or city electrical inspectors. We have either a 2000 or 4000 hr trainee experience requirement befor testing. We have the same continuing education requirements as any other electrician or plumber.

actually now in Washington, an electrician can't install a pump, unless he also has an 01, 02, or 03 plumbers license.
 
Having inspected well over 1000 homes in rural areas around here, I can attest the well installers are the worst electricians, followed by water treatment installers and homeowners who add this sort of stuff themselves!
 
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