Ways around using AFCI breakers and rewiring my house during panel upgrade

L

La elec mech

Member
Location
Los angeles
Occupation
Electrical mechanic
Here’s my dilemma,
I’m upgrading my main service panel from 100 to 200A and relocating it (extending the branch circuits more than 6’). Therefore under 210.12(A) I’m having to use AFCI breakers in my new panel. The problem being with the existing wiring, some circuits have split neutrals. Im told those circuits will immediately trip due to the unbalanced loads carried between the hots and shared neutral. So my question is, am I obligated to replace the wiring to those receptacles or are there ways around that? Would an outlet branch-circuit AFCI receptacle be suitable with a shared neutral? Or can/should I just abandon the circuit altogether? My local county office is giving me the runaround with speaking to an inspector. I’m trying to have this done without ripping open my walls.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
They make dp afci breakers that work on multiwire branch circuit's.
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Not every manufacturer makes them. The imbalance mentioned by OP is an issue on the breakers by MFG who still use ground fault detection as part of the AFCI breakers (not true dual function),

I know Siemens and now GE-ABB has 2 pole AFCI breakers. Here is an article by ABB about their new product:

 
Fred B said:
Not every manufacturer makes them. The imbalance mentioned by OP is an issue on the breakers by MFG who still use ground fault detection as part of the AFCI breakers (not true dual function),

I know Siemens and now GE-ABB has 2 pole AFCI breakers. Here is an article by ABB about their new product:

Click to expand...
GE uses 2 sp afci breakers. They don't make a dp afci.
 
If you are doing a panel upgrade, you can pick the manufacturer to match the requirements.

Some AFCI breakers incorporate ground fault detection as part of their function. If you try to use a single pole breaker that has ground fault detection on a shared neutral circuit, you will get an immediate trip just as you say. But a double pole AFCI breaker will work on such a circuit with no problem.

For my own home, I decided to use shared neutral circuits when it was clear that double pole AFCI breakers were available for my panel (Siemens).

Some AFCI breakers do not have built in ground fault detection. These will work on shared neutral circuits without a problem.
 
La elec mech said:
I’m upgrading my main service panel from 100 to 200A and relocating it (extending the branch circuits more than 6’). Therefore under 210.12(A) I’m having to use AFCI breakers in my new panel
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Is there any way you can keep the relocated panel within 6' of the existing location? You could end up saving a lot of money not having to buy 2-pole AFCI breakers.
 
infinity said:
Well it's better than the original rule which had no allowance for extending a branch circuit. I believe that Dennis wrote that proposal for things like panel upgrades.
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I wrote the rule but didn't have a limitation on the distance. They liked what I wrote but added the 6'rule. The next cycle I complained about the 6' saying 2 things. On3e was that 6' wasn't enough and the other was that the 6' didn't exempt the wiring inside the panel. In other words, that length did not count. They accepted that part.

NC extended the distance to 50' in an amendment.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
The next cycle I complained about the 6' saying 2 things. On3e was that 6' wasn't enough and the other was that the 6' didn't exempt the wiring inside the panel. In other words, that length did not count.
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Yes the 2023 NEC added language stating that the length of wiring within the panel or junction box doesn't count towards the 6' exception. So you could mount a JB up to 6' from the panel and use any length of conductors to make your connections without triggering the AFCI rule.
 
hbiss said:
I've been meaning to mention this that I heard from the CDC awhile back. They barred drug manufacturers from being able to vote on what drugs the CDC should approve. The NEC needs to do the same, kick out all the manufacturers from being voting members!

-Hal
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I feel your pain. I'm often one of the biggest critics of the current code process and more specifically the make up of the CMP's. The one advantage of having manufacturers being a part of the code process is that it can foster innovation. It is a catch 22 because they can often operate with their own interests in mind and not what's best for the actual code rules.
 
infinity said:
one advantage of having manufacturers being a part of the code process is that it can foster innovation.
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So, if they have no control over the code making process they figure there's no money in it so why bother? That's a good thing. They should have had that attitude 40 years ago about AFCIs, think how much better off we would be.

-Hal
 
infinity said:
Is there any way you can keep the relocated panel within 6' of the existing location? You could end up saving a lot of money not having to buy 2-pole AFCI breakers.
Click to expand...
AFCI is still required with panel flipped in the same spot.
 
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