Well Casing Grounding

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Well Casing Ground

Well Casing Ground

electricmanscott said:
I have to say that is pretty sad. Asking that on such a basic electrical job would be a red flag to me and I would be very thorough on the inspect
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I inspected a rough wiring on a new home, that did not sell for a couple of years,when I went back for the final I removed the well casing cover to be sure that the casing was bonded, what I found was badly rusted wirenuts. I agree that direct burial wirenuts may not have rusted.

I wonder if the inspector should consider the casing a damp location and require that the connections be made in a weatherproof box?

The other violation most common is the lack of protection for conductors in the trench. As I previously stated I do not permit well people to install wiring in the trench for that reason.

I wonder haw many electricians do the trench wiring as apposed to those that permit the well people do it for them.
 
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FWIW, the splices inside the well casing are made with heat shrink wire splice kits... at least around here


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I seriously wonder if it matters that the wire nuts were rusted. Obviously the plastic was ok, and what harm is there in having them rust. I dont think a wp box would change anything. We all know that they leak and would in the end be no different then the inside of the well casing.
 
Maybe worse as they fill with water, or cover becomes part of the box as the stainless steel cover screws ALWAYS seen to rust, or the aluminium cover corrodes to the box.
 
"install it to meet code" enough said ?

"install it to meet code" enough said ?

brian john said:
I would think (maybe incorrectly) that any inspector that is asked "How would you like to see it done" should respond "By the code" be it national or local. Now if an inspector turned me down I would ask how he thinks it should be done, then I would ask for references to code.
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Brian, I have found, as wih most things dicuseed here, is at times is not that simple, I agree with you and most often I tell folks "to meet Code" emphasising that they may have idea that is better and/or less expensive than mine and in the end my job is simply to see that it meets code.
That said, we charge for re-inspections, and when you get that "deer in the headlight look" on a rejection, you almost have to make a few suggestions to a few "electricians" or they would bankrupt having us retun until they got it right thru trial an error.
 
Augie...Understood.


I am by no means a code expert, therefore prior to doing a job I have not been involved with before or for some time I ALWAYS use the "book". My kids use to call it my bible because it was always within reach, much like my grandmother and her bible.
 
augie47 said:
Brian, I have found, as wih most things dicuseed here, is at times is not that simple, I agree with you and most often I tell folks "to meet Code" emphasising that they may have idea that is better and/or less expensive than mine and in the end my job is simply to see that it meets code.
That said, we charge for re-inspections, and when you get that "deer in the headlight look" on a rejection, you almost have to make a few suggestions to a few "electricians" or they would bankrupt having us retun until they got it right thru trial an error.
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Why? Maybe the re-inspection fees would encourage them to learn their craft.LOL

When I do a well(few)I use the casing as part of the GE system, I figure the 600'metal pipe to be an effective path, this also effectively bonds the casing.

Also the leads from the pump are usually long enough to reach the controls no? No splices no problems. This is of course my opinion.

I am not perfect in what I do but am continually trying to learn.

Tom
 
Davis9 said:
When I do a well(few)I use the casing as part of the GE system, I figure the 600'metal pipe to be an effective path, this also effectively bonds the casing.
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The well casing must be bonded to the circuit that feeds the wells GEC.
 
Davis9 said:
I figure the 600'metal pipe to be an effective path, this also effectively bonds the casing.
Tom
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You don't really mean 600'. Tha casing usually only goes 40 feet or so around here, but the well goes 300-400' depending on how much water you get.
 
electricmanscott said:
The well casing must be bonded to the circuit that feeds the wells GEC.
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It is when you install the GEC right?

Tom:-?

Edited to add that i'm assuming you meant EGC and not GEC
 
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Dennis Alwon said:
You don't really mean 600'. Tha casing usually only goes 40 feet or so around here, but the well goes 300-400' depending on how much water you get.
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I did not know that. Must be better than just 2 rods though.

Tom
 
I probably should clarify that the casing usually goes down to where the solid rock is hit. That can vary from place to place.
 
electricmanscott said:
I don't want to stir things up because you never know when I'll be working in your area. :wink:

However I can't let this go by without a response.

My response: Thanks for your opinion, but I'll just do it my way which is perfectly acceptable, legal, and works just fine in 99% of the wells around here. And, I really don't think you should even be suggesting how something like this should be done just because you think it is a good method since it is only your opinion.


Some EC's may feel that by doing it their way that they are not obeying you and that you will be pissed off and bust their chops on the rest of the job. While this may not be true, it's a situation that they should not even be put in and it is real.

The bottom line is why not just inspect and leave the design work out of it? Who needs the extra tension?

I think most guys here will back me on this.
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I'll back you on this.:cool:

But in Romeo's defense, a lot of guys do ask how you (as an inspector) want it done. Yes, this is ridiculous, but true. And from personal experience, you will not find a more thorough or fair inspector than Romeo.
 
j_erickson said:
I'll back you on this.:cool:

But in Romeo's defense, a lot of guys do ask how you (as an inspector) want it done. Yes, this is ridiculous, but true. And from personal experience, you will not find a more thorough or fair inspector than Romeo.
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I am sure they do ask and when they do offer up the advice. I was more getting at the unsoliceted advice inspectors sometimes like to give.

And with a name like Romeo...how can he not be good.:grin:
 
Davis9 said:
electricmanscott said:
The well casing must be bonded to the circuit that feeds the wells GEC.
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It is when you install the GEC right?

Tom:-?

Edited to add that i'm assuming you meant EGC and not GEC
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I think Scott was trying to say, the well casing must be bonded to the EGC of the circuit feeding the well pump.

Davis9 said:
When I do a well(few)I use the casing as part of the GE system, I figure the 600'metal pipe to be an effective path, this also effectively bonds the casing.
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While I agree with your theory, there's one hitch: 300.3 requires all circuit conductors to be run together. I'm sure you probably run an EGC to the well pump, so it's not an issue - however, if you were to skip it based on the presence of a GEC also bonding out the casing, you'd have a 300.3 violation, IMO.

Another aspect to consider is, what if ... (hate to say that) ... but what if someone decides to remove the GEC for whatever reason down the road? For the sake of argument, let's say they upgrade/relocate the service, and realize one of the GECs is going to a non-required electrode, so they don't have to include it and don't. You just lost the bonding path.

I think one reason for the requirement to group EGCs and current-carrying circuit conductors is to minimize induced heating, but another good reason is it's hard to ditch a conductor or two and not notice others going the same way, if that makes any sense.

Dennis Alwon said:
Tha casing usually only goes 40 feet or so around here, but the well goes 300-400' depending on how much water you get.
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I think it's the same around here. I think casing is required for at least 20' (or maybe 50').

There is one local well driller that cases a lot deeper, and actually encases the casing in concrete (or something like that) and their price per foot was like $22/ft as compared to around $15/ft for a conventional well, seven years ago. I didn't really see the benefit in that and was on a budget, so I went with one of the $15 guys. :)
 
the irrigation wells have become a real problem in this area, the well driller installs the well and leaves it up to homeowner to wire it, 99 percent of the time with no permit, have also seen alot of nema 1 pressure switches installed outside
 
Well Casing Grounding

j_erickson said:
I'll back you on this.:cool:

But in Romeo's defense, a lot of guys do ask how you (as an inspector) want it done. Yes, this is ridiculous, but true. And from personal experience, you will not find a more thorough or fair inspector than Romeo.
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John thank you for the kind words. I rather have a friendly and personal,relationship with the contractors that I inspect for and try to workout code issues, in an agreeable manner that will not create hardship.

I am sure that I am not the only inspector, that has had a call from a EC describing an installation that was not passed by an inspector in another town/city and asking how I would accept that same installation.

To answer " do it by code" seems to me to be unacceptable and that is what I am getting here from most those that have responded.

There are many that ask for methods of doing the best job possible, from people in this forum ( including myself ) Why is it so bad for an inspector with years of experience to offer advice? Sure it is not in his job description to do so but what does it hurt, provided that he does not require it?

I put many years of hard work into the electrical industry, and it has been rewarding. I have no objection to passing my good fortune on to others, so I will never answer a question by saying "Do It To code"
 
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Well Casing Grounding

danickstr said:
I guess I figured a well with a steel casing would act as its own ground, since it goes into the....ground.
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No a ground fault on the casing will not be cleared, unless it has as return path to the source. However the casing may be used as an effective GEC.

JMO
 
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