Wet Romex

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RICK NAPIER

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A fellow inspector has an issue in the township he works in where a home owner had a large roof leak. The electrical cables got very wet and repairs were performed without permits or inspections. The inspector had them open some locations so he could an idea of what damage may have occurred. He also had an electrical engineer test the romex for leakage and there was none. The home owner is still unsatisfied. I was hoping that someone out there may know of an article or some resource for information on the effects of water on NM cable. The cable involved predates the polyvinylchloride (PVC) covering and is the earlier impregnated braided rayon threaded covering from the 1950's on to 1980's. Thanks for the help.
 
I don't have any code articles for that era but if the cable is not constantly subjected to water I don't see an issue esp. if the engineer tested it. Did he meg the circuit?
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I don't have any code articles for that era but if the cable is not constantly subjected to water I don't see an issue esp. if the engineer tested it. Did he meg the circuit?
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An engineer? With a megger?
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Practical approach:

I have, as many of use have, seen Romex work fine soaking wet. We have seen it used in outdoor apps by hacks and homeowners and somehow still work. Someone with a flair for adventure and a bit of ingenuity could surely make it work.

Real world approach:

Consider the litigious nature of The Land of the Free. CYA and only recommend new everything installed by experienced, bonded, insured and licensed electricians.

Do whatever the customer wants, but go forth not without signed waiver in hand.
 
RICK NAPIER said:
A fellow inspector has an issue in the township he works in where a home owner had a large roof leak. The electrical cables got very wet and repairs were performed without permits or inspections. The inspector had them open some locations so he could an idea of what damage may have occurred. He also had an electrical engineer test the romex for leakage and there was none. The home owner is still unsatisfied. I was hoping that someone out there may know of an article or some resource for information on the effects of water on NM cable. The cable involved predates the polyvinylchloride (PVC) covering and is the earlier impregnated braided rayon threaded covering from the 1950's on to 1980's. Thanks for the help.
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ok something is not clear here. Is the home owner the one that did the work ? What is he after ? One point that needs brought up is that home now has a known defect and if sold needs be disclosed to the buyer.
 
Here is a link to Nema - Evaluating Water-Damaged Electrical Equipment


NEMA?s Guidance on Water-Damaged Electrical Equipment

NEMA > Press Room > NEMA News > NEMA?s Guidance on Water-Damaged Electrical Equipment

19 Jun 2008 Rosslyn, Va., June 18, 2008--Electrical equipment exposed to water can be extremely hazardous if reenergized without proper reconditioning or replacement. Reductions in integrity of electrical equipment due to moisture can affect the ability of the equipment to perform its intended function. Damage to electrical equipment can result from flood waters contaminated with chemicals, sewage, oil, and other debris, which will affect the integrity and performance of the equipment. Ocean water and salt spray can also be particularly damaging due to the corrosive and conductive nature of the salt water residue. Distributors of electrical equipment should not supply any inventory that has been subjected to water damage.
A working knowledge of electrical systems and the equipment in question is needed to evaluate damage due to contact with water. The original manufacturer of the equipment should be contacted if questions arise or recommendations are needed. In many cases following water damage, replacement may be necessary. After consultation with the manufacturer, some larger types of electrical equipment may be reconditioned by properly trained personnel.
A National Electrical Manufacturers Association publication, Evaluating Water-Damaged Electrical Equipment, provides specific guidance on whether products that have been exposed to water should be replaced or reconditioned. The publication provides information to building owners, maintenance workers, electrical inspectors, electricians, and users of electrical products on how to evaluate electrical equipment that has been exposed to water through flooding, fire-fighting activities, and hurricanes. It includes a table showing the requirements and recommendations associated with various categories of electrical equipment that have been subject to water damage.
NEMA is providing copies of this document to electrical inspectors, building officials and others. NEMA Field Representatives are also making copies available during their visits to the Midwest and to other communities throughout the U.S. In addition, NEMA is inviting organization such as the International Code Council and the National Joint Apprenticeship and Training Program of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers to make this free document available to its constituents. A complimentary copy of Evaluating Water-Damaged Electrical Equipment may be downloaded by visiting NEMA?s website at http://www.nema.org/stds/water-damaged.cfm.
NEMA is the trade association of choice for the electrical manufacturing industry. Founded in 1926 and headquartered near Washington, D.C., its 430 member companies manufacture products used in the generation, transmission and distribution, control, and end-use of electricity. These products are used in utility, medical imaging, industrial, commercial, institutional, and residential applications. Domestic production of electrical products sold worldwide exceeds $120 billion. In addition to its headquarters in Rosslyn, Virginia, NEMA also has offices in Beijing, S?o Paulo, and Mexico City.
Press/Public Relations Contacts:


Vince Baclawski
Senior Technical Manager
703-841-3236
Vince.Baclawski@nema.org
 
K8MHZ said:
Practical approach:

Do whatever the customer wants, but go forth not without signed waiver in hand.
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Sometimes signed waivers are not going to help the contractor.

An electrical contractor is considered an expert by the court system in this country.
With that said, the homeowner signing a waiver may not ease the responsibility from the contractor.
 
I was taught years ago while doing work on fire damaged houses to replace if any dought at all. We can only hit the insurance one time. We were replacing all devices,fixtures,fans. Any wire showing heat or water damage got changed. If this was a flood and insurance is involved then go for the max.. If your wrong you will be back for free. I scrapped plenty of copper that probably was never wet or seen smoke.
 
Man I guess we all better go back and replace the romex poked out for all the exterior outlets on the dwellings that got any rain or snow in between the rough and trim out stages, wow come to think of it an inspector really can split hairs concerning leaving whips exposed to the elements...........:rolleyes:
 
Mr.Sparkle said:
Man I guess we all better go back and replace the romex poked out for all the exterior outlets on the dwellings that got any rain or snow in between the rough and trim out stages, wow come to think of it an inspector really can split hairs concerning leaving whips exposed to the elements...........:rolleyes:
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Seriously.

I think in the ops case this is much ado about nothing.
 
The repairs were performed by a licensed electrician supplied and paid for by the contractor who was repairing the roof and was resposable for the leak. The engineer did meggar the wires and the readings were fine. The home owner is not satisfied with this and wants the walls opened and the wires replaced. And thanks for the NEMA download.
 
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This sounds like he trying to get a rewire job out of this. I would be more concerned about mold and mildew damage. Also is likely the insulation if any is now damaged. I do see his concern about problems he might have a few years from now. Nothing short of a court battle will solve this.Chances are the wire is ok but what about every connection and wire nuts. Was this leak isolated to just an area or whole house. Lets be fair here. The roofer is looking for cheap repair and the EC is likely a friend. If it had been my house i would be picking the EC not the roofer. As to the inspector as long as its dry and passed megger i see nothing he could fail it for.
 
And how many thousands of boxes of cable have sat in the back of trucks or along side some contractors house, until they were installed. I don't see how getting wet once and drying out could cause any damage to the wire.
 
cowboyjwc said:
And how many thousands of boxes of cable have sat in the back of trucks or along side some contractors house, until they were installed. I don't see how getting wet once and drying out could cause any damage to the wire.
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Its the paper around the ground that is the problem. It can courode the bare copper. Ever look at the first foot of romex that had water on it even after dried. It sure wont be shiny copper. I have seen houses roughed in that did not even have tar paper yet. Technically an inspector could fail it and have heard of some not allowing you to rough in untill window were in. I would not judge the OP case without knowing more details like how many days of rain before it was dryed back in.
 
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