What about garbage disposals and dishwashers?

[bikeindy]

If we stop using switches for disconnects life will be getting rough.If that switch is not enough for the plumber perhaps he should turn all breakers off including the main and have the poco cut the drop free.

Jim, I said it was enough. I personally like the added measure as a feel good saftey feature for the homeowner. and whenever I can make someone elses job a little easier I do. I have a service mentality about it. It is much easier to hook up the disposer if you can connect a cord to it prior to install and then just plug it in. But I have already said this about ten times in three different threads if you want to hardwire them it is fine with me.

 

[George Stolz]

I'm not gonna do it, but it'd be perfectly ok to plug the disposal and dishwasher into one duplex receptacle, provided it was split with 2 dedicated 15 amp circuits, right? ... Also, is it ok to share the neutral on this?

I do this on almost every single house I do. A 14-3 home-run to the disposal/dishwasher receptacle. Generally the dishwasher's next to the sink. Favor the dishwasher side of the sink cabinet. Pull a two-wire dead-end ("farmer") switchleg to the switch.

The only thing to bear in mind is a simple mistie can result in the neutral being switching instead of the hot, which could damage the dishwasher.

But, as simple as the mistie is, it's just as simple to check for. When hot-checking, just be sure to shut the disposal switch over the sink off, and look at the plug tester to be sure both lights of the tester are off. If the mistie is there, then the "Open Neutral" light will be on, and you'll know that someone accidentally grabbed the home-run neutral instead of the switchleg white.

Again, the old timer electrician told me he dosn't like it cause if the cords get switched, the breakers no longer correspond to the appliance.

As Bikeindy noted, the disposal would start running all the time. It's not going to happen.

 

[macmikeman]

Not to be a stick in the mud, but when hardwiring a disposal and using the switch on the countertop for the disconnecting means, its pretty hard to have a direct line of sight to the disconnecting means unless the sink bowl is glass.

 

[electricmanscott]

The only thing to bear in mind is a simple mistie can result in the neutral being switching instead of the hot, which could damage the dishwasher..

Is this an admission on your part?

 

[jeff43222]

Regardless, here's another one for ya. I'm not gonna do it, but it'd be perfectly ok to plug the disposal and dishwasher into one duplex receptacle, provided it was split with 2 dedicated 15 amp circuits, right? Again, the old timer electrician told me he dosn't like it cause if the cords get switched, the breakers no longer correspond to the appliance. Also, is it ok to share the neutral on this?

This is how I almost always wire these two appliances. I have half of the duplex connected to a switch loop, and I put the whole thing on a duplex breaker in the panel, as required by 210.4(B).

I don't see how switching the cords is an issue. If someone did that, the disposal would be on all the time. Most people would notice this. And it's perfectly fine to share the neutral, as long as the hots are on different legs.

 

[wireman3736]

Just another scenario, 210.7, wet bar sink, whats the difference between a standard sink in a counter top and a wet bar sink, can be considered the same as alot of counter tops in houses have a lip that goes up at the edge. So the question is if the plug is under the sink and within 6' of the sink does it have to be GFCI protected. For the record I always install a single receptacle for cord and plug hook up and I never GFCI them.

 

[George Stolz]

Is this an admission on your part?

Ouch!

While it may sound silly, to be perfectly honest, no, I don't recall doing it myself. But I've seen it happen twice. Each time, the two different guys who did it "never made mistakes." I wouldn't be overly amazed or driven insane if I myself did it. Mistakes happen. It's also our job to catch them.

Seeing others goof is a good reminder to stay on one's toes.

 

[M. D.]

I hope we are paying attention to Articles 400.8 & 422.16 when we use cords and plugs .

 

[bikeindy]

I hope we are paying attention to Articles 400.8 & 422.16 when we use cords and plugs .

Why wouldn't we 422.16 is what gives us the ok to use cord and plug on dishwashers and disposers.

 

[M. D.]

Bikeindy , It's just that some of us forget from time to time that the cords are not allowed to pass through walls and floors and that there are length requirements and that for dishwashers the use of cords has to be expressed in the instructions.

 

[dlhoule]

Seeing others goof is a good reminder to stay on one's toes.

It just serves as a consolation to me. It just shows me that I'm not the only one to ever make any mistakes.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Bikeindy , It's just that some of us forget from time to time that the cords are not allowed to pass through walls and floors and that there are length requirements and that for dishwashers the use of cords has to be expressed in the instructions.

Now we must question if a cabinet is a wall.It is usually 3/8 thick wood (combustable) we already know that fixed glass is a wall so perhaps we now have a violation with the dish washer cord going thru the cabinet.

 

[jwelectric]

Now we must question if a cabinet is a wall.It is usually 3/8 thick wood (combustable) we already know that fixed glass is a wall so perhaps we now have a violation with the dish washer cord going thru the cabinet.

422.16(B)(2) Built-in Dishwashers and Trash Compactors Built-in dishwashers and trash compactors shall be permitted to be cord-and-plug connected with a flexible cord identified as suitable for the purpose in the installation instructions of the appliance manufacturer where all of the following conditions are met:
(1) The flexible cord shall be terminated with a grounding-type attachment plug.
Exception: A listed dishwasher or trash compactor distinctly marked to identify it as protected by a system of double insulation, or its equivalent, shall not be required to be terminated with a grounding-type attachment plug.
(2) The length of the cord shall be 0.9 m to 1.2 m (3 ft to 4 ft) measured from the face of the attachment plug to the plane of the rear of the appliance.
(3) Receptacles shall be located to avoid physical damage to the flexible cord.

(4) The receptacle shall be located in the space occupied by the appliance or adjacent thereto.

(5) The receptacle shall be accessible.

The way I read this I am allowed to run it through the cabinet

 

[bikeindy]

I agree with Mike. and to top it off how many cabinets have you seen that have holes for cords for TV's and sterios and the like. I will add that I think in the case of drilling holes in cabinets in the kitchen whether it be for Microwave or dishwasher that you should use a plastic snap in hole gromet. Not only does it help to protect the cord it looks very profesional to the homeowner and they will call you for the upgrades to there house when they want them. I can't tell you how many homeowners have noticed the little things I do.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I agree with Mike. and to top it off how many cabinets have you seen that have holes for cords for TV's and sterios and the like. I will add that I think in the case of drilling holes in cabinets in the kitchen whether it be for Microwave or dishwasher that you should use a plastic snap in hole gromet. Not only does it help to protect the cord it looks very profesional to the homeowner and they will call you for the upgrades to there house when they want them. I can't tell you how many homeowners have noticed the little things I do.

While i know most do this and i have too it still is passing thru a wall.Given permission to be adjacent is not saying it can pass thru a hole.Almost all built in microwaves do this.How is this safe put a cord thru the same size hole is not permitted thru a wall between 2 rooms ?

 

[bikeindy]

While i know most do this and i have too it still is passing thru a wall.Given permission to be adjacent is not saying it can pass thru a hole.Almost all built in microwaves do this.How is this safe put a cord thru the same size hole is not permitted thru a wall between 2 rooms ?

Hey Jim, if i run the wire in conduit through a wall is that ok? YES! so putting it through a hole in a cabinet that is 1/2" thick with a plastic bushing (conduit) is also. Try as you may to say this practice is somehow wrong or unsafe is starting to annoy me. Find a real problem with how work is being done. by the way the hole is ussually much larger than the cord so that the plug can get through.

 

[Shockedby277v]

Bikeindy,

Grats on your senior member title! Waiting to get mine

 

[infinity]

A cabinet is not a wall. As Mike said, the cord is permitted to be plugged into a receptacle adjacent to the dishwasher.

 

[bikeindy]

Bikeindy,

Grats on your senior member title! Waiting to get mine

What I feel cheated out of my adolesence and young adult hood member titles. I guess you become a senior at 100 the guys with 2000 should be called old foggy members i think.

 

[infinity]

What I feel cheated out of my adolesence and young adult hood member titles. I guess you become a senior at 100 the guys with 2000 should be called old foggy members i think.

Thanks.