- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Very likely....only listed generators are required by the listing to have the neutral to frame bond...a lot of portable generators are not listed.
what am i missing with generator inlet label?
- Thread starter bullheimer
- Start date
- Status
shortcircuit2
Senior Member
- Location
- South of Bawstin
I agree its confusing to the homeowner/end-user to understand separately derived or non-separately derived. The industry should call them "Type 1 or Type 2" or "Type A or Type B"...then the inlet could just be labeled for "Type 1 Generator" or "Type 2 Generator", etc.
Most of the gen-sets I have seen at the box stores have a bonded neutral.
Also once you break the neutral to ground bond to connect a generator to a building...that generator is not safe for the construction site anymore:happysad:
Tip...A quick continuity check between neutral and ground at the receptacle on the generator will identify its type:happyyes:
Most of the gen-sets I have seen at the box stores have a bonded neutral.
Also once you break the neutral to ground bond to connect a generator to a building...that generator is not safe for the construction site anymore:happysad:
Tip...A quick continuity check between neutral and ground at the receptacle on the generator will identify its type:happyyes:
qcroanoke
Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
- Location
- Roanoke, VA.
- Occupation
- Sorta retired........
Mine's not.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Will still be about as confusing to non electricians and even a few electricians. Homeowner/end users wouldn't pay any more attention to such a designation then they currently do to any similar technical details. Mostly all they will pay attention to is kW rating and maybe literature that may indicate what the unit may be able to power, if the outlet don't match what they may have at home so what, we will just buy parts needed to make an adapter:roll:
Why you think it is not safe? If neutral is left floating you have an ungrounded system. First fault of any conductor to ground simply creates a grounded system, voltage to ground will be 240 if it is not the neutral that faults, but isn't going to hurt anything otherwise. Fault a second conductor and an overcurrent device is going to open.
You can't just decide to do that kind of thing with utility a supply. Leave bonding jumpers out at service equipment - the utility usually still has ground connections at least at the transformer, you need to intentionally have an ungrounded system being supplied.
shortcircuit2
Senior Member
- Location
- South of Bawstin
If the second fault were in equipment connected to the generator, this would expose the user to a 240volt potential electrocution hazard. Having the neutral to ground bond eliminates this hazard by creating a path for the overcurrent protective device to open.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
It can, and user will be subject to anything from zero to 240 volts, not necessarily full 240 volts. Same goes if you intentionally ground the neutral except max voltage to ground is limited to 120.
High impedance connections are an issue and will introduce the most hazard either way. With portable generators and cord and plug connections this is also much higher risk then "hard wiring" methods. What happens if you do have a bonded neutral at the generator but your EGC becomes compromised in a cord cap?
qcroanoke
Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
- Location
- Roanoke, VA.
- Occupation
- Sorta retired........
shortcircuit2
Senior Member
- Location
- South of Bawstin
Here, the GFCI protects the user.
Again, here the GFCI protects the user.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
If you have 120 volt receptacles yes the GFCI is the last line of defense. If you have other then 120 volt receptacles on the generator, they are not as likely to have GFCI protection.
First ground fault will not trip the GFCI as you need a second ground fault to have any ground fault current to trip the GFCI.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Not really. If you read the ROP and ROC for the 2014 you'll see that the GFCI won't work due to the lack of a ground fault return path. the generator manufacturers recognized this, but the CMP added the GFCI requirement.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
First ground fault of an ungrounded system there is nothing to protect from, you simply have made the system a grounded system, it is the second ground fault that will actually give you fault current and the GFCI will respond to that if it flows outside the intended circuit.
- Location
- Massachusetts
I would use my P-Touch label maker.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Well then anyplace that does custom engraved plastic signs can do this for you
I have one supply house that does them, but other sources may be office supply stores, places that sell trophies, medals, etc. may also do such signs, as well a some places that may surprise you when you find they do this service.
- Location
- Massachusetts
In that case I would order custom phenolic labels.
As a side note they make outdoor Ptouch tape that does stand up in direct weather, I have used it and it lasts very well for what it is.
shortcircuit2
Senior Member
- Location
- South of Bawstin
Here is the label I had made...it is 2x3inches...
Attachments
cpinetree
Senior Member
- Location
- SW Florida
separately
Took me three looks to find it :weeping:
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
Was that to find one of the error or both?
- Status