What architects need to know.

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Codeitis

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I am an architect and therefore do not have any formal education in electrical engineering or any other electrical background so my questions may seem some what simple to many. I am mainly interested in information in the NEC that an Architect would need to know or would be ideal to know during the planning and design of a building. Does anyone know of a simple comprehensive list that would be of interest to Architects in regards to the electrical code reuirements that directly effect the architecture, such as when does an electrical room need to be rated, etc.

Anyhow, Where can I find specific section in the NEC that can give me information on when an electrical room is required to have a fire resistance rating of at least 1-hour. Is an electircal room ever required to be 2-hour rated.

Are there any specific requirements in regards to wall ratings for other spaces such as Tele comm rooms or IDF rooms.

Please Advise.

Thanks
 
First, let me admit that I don't know the answer to your question. But I don't think it is an NEC question. The NEC has rules for the fire rating of transformer vaults, but you will not encounter such a thing unless you are talking about a large, many story building. If there is a requirement for fire ratings for electric rooms, I don't think it is in the NEC. It is more likely to be in a building code.

One thing I would like architects to understand is that electric rooms must happen, and that the larger the building the more electric rooms will be needed. It can't be done on the basis of, "Well, if you must have a room, I'll set aside this tiny space in this remote corner." The closer an electric room is to the center of the building, the better the supply voltage can be to all the computers, lights, and other loads. In the long run, that reduces the costs as well.

The other thing I would like architects to understand is that there are cases in which the doors to electric rooms must open outwards. Rather than being specific about when it is or is not required by the NEC, I think it best to just make all electric room doors open outwards as a matter of common habit.
 
I've been working with architects for 7 years, and for some reason we always have the same issues. I commend you for coming on this site trying to find out. Here's the list:

1. We need at least 3-4 feet in front of a panel and a 30" span from panel to panel, always check with the engineer in regards to the size of the electrical room.

2. We need centralized electric closets in the building. It will cut down on wire sizes.

3. Please put ALL equipment that need power on the floor plan, or give the engineer a list of equipment that will need power.

4. XFMRs rated over 112.5 KVA will need be surrounded by a 1 hour fire rated wall if inside the building.

5. Most utility transformers are located outdoors, just so you know, if you don't like the way it looks meet with the CE and EE to coordinate it. Bushes are nice, but not in front of the XFMR door.

6. Please provide chases and enough plenum space for lighting and conduit.

7. Always coordinate the lighting with the EE, because the fc level may not be adequate for the space.

8. Please make sure you understand that all deadlines should not be the same for the architects and MEP. We can't all be done the same time, and provide a high quality product. It seems that the ME and EE always conflict, because the ME is needed so that we can power their equipment.

9. When bidding, please keep in mind that if an EC charges 20/SQ FT doesn't reflect how of a budget we should get. The work is the same amount as most other trades, just cost a little less.

10. Meeting, meetings, meetings with the client are always good because the Arch. might not be able to relay in detail what we want done for the building electrically.

That's it...hope that helps...


Lady :)
 
I would also like to add that in most commercial building in the northeast they have perimeter electric baseboard heat. Don't put receptacles above them.
 
Don't be cheap! If you need to hire an EE, do so. I've seen the electrical design by an architect taken for gospel until I had to prove him wrong. Embarrassing for both of us.
When you call an EE for some advise, be prepared to pay. Afterall you are selling your services and you approached the EE for his services.

Thanks for asking.
 
Fire Ratings at transformers

Fire Ratings at transformers

4. XFMRs rated over 112.5 KVA will need be surrounded by a 1 hour fire rated wall if inside the building.


Where does this requirement come from? I haven't noticed it before. Can you cite a code reference? Thanks!
 
lile001 said:
4. XFMRs rated over 112.5 KVA will need be surrounded by a 1 hour fire rated wall if inside the building.


Where does this requirement come from? I haven't noticed it before. Can you cite a code reference? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Look at
450.21(B)
 
Notice exception #2 to 450.21(B). It seems to be almost impossible to decide if a transformer meets the "Class 155 or higher" requirement. You won't find that listed on the catalog page.

However, I think I have decided most standard dry type transformers meet this requirement. By standard dry type, I mean something like a Square D General Purpose 112T3H or a 112T3HEE. Can anyone confirm or refute this?

Steve
 
Jim, how do read this thread as to worrying about cost? The OP is asking about code issues that he should be aware of. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Roger
 
make overlays of all the plans there is nothing like trying to put a light fixture,air duct,sprinkler head.and drain pipe in the same place.

be aware that conduit takes up space if it is going to be in the concrete ceiling or floor the concrete may need to be thicker if it is going to be in a wall it may need a thicker wall 3 1/2 conduit in 2x4 stud wall does not work.

6 1nch deep panel in 6 inch wall does not work

also keep in mind that when an electrician sends an RFI it is because the actual situation is not working as it is drawn on paper.

if you draw it we are supposed to put it in that way and the OH by the way we need this here is not always easy or cost effective and is often missed till the last minute. give as much information as you can about everything even if you have to write a seperate book spec sheets do not always give enough information

give dementions for locations on items that match dementions of the walls simplified in the center of this 24 inch wall put a recept 4 inches from this end and 23 inches from this end

got the cabnet drawings for the project I am doing now asked where they wanted the required recpts they said put one here and one here i asked how I was suposed to mount my boxes for the recepts in the glass doors that surround the intire island except for the one side that has an 18 inch overhang

Stallcups electrical design book from NFPA might help on some issues
 
Jim, code concerns are more important than cost, and if he hired a Florida electrical worker, he most likely wouldn't get any code knowledge at all. :D

Now to bring you up to speed, the OP is wanting to know code issues he might need for his architectural design, he is not saying he is going to do the Electrical design, that would be left to a PE with a seal in most cases.:D

Roger
 
roger said:
Jim, code concerns are more important than cost, and if he hired a Florida electrical worker, he most likely wouldn't get any code knowledge at all. :D

Now to bring you up to speed, the OP is wanting to know code issues he might need for his architectural design, he is not saying he is going to do the Electrical design, that would be left to a PE with a seal in most cases.:D

Roger
Click to expand...
Seems you have a problem with Florida,were you asked to leave ?I know you know everything about the state you left 20 some years ago.Wake up its changed.
Ever think that codes and cost can be put together,never mind your still stuck on the idea that Florida knows nothing.
 
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Jim, yeah, it has changed.

I left because to many of you were / are there. ;)

Remember a while back when you were saying those you work along side everyday are keeping your wages low, we said the same thing about you guys 20 + years ago.

Anyways, that has nothing to do with this thread so I'll leave it at that.:)

Roger
 
Well Jim W I figure there are a lot of good people in Fl, cause I don't think any of the good people have left yet. I do think it would be nice if FL would adopt and enforce NFPA 101 though. Besides that you are somewhat opinionated at times. So what if you are usually correct.
 
One of the things that often gets missed on plans is door swing and hardware for equipment rooms with equipment rated 1200 amps or more. The doors must swing out and have panic hardware.
 
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