What differentiates a Siemens 30/30 panel from a 30/40 exactly?

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
I do to, but with a twist! I install the ground bar horizontally up top (or sometimes both top and bottom depending on where cables come in) and that keeps my egcs neatly at top so they don't clutter up the gutter.
I've done that a couple of times, with one long bar at the top.

Kind of nifty
 
I've done that a couple of times, with one long bar at the top.

Kind of nifty
It's kinda weird, I've been doing electrical for about 25 years now, and panel makeup is something I keep doing a bit different each time. Seems like I am never 100% happy with how it comes out so next time I try a slight variation. The top horz ground bar is a relatively new method and I think it's def a keeper for me
 

letgomywago

Senior Member
Location
Washington state and Oregon coast
Occupation
residential electrician
For what type of work? For residential now not much opportunity to use tandems/quads. For most houses now I don't think I would want anything less than 40 full spaces , and even that is often not enough. Of course 30's should be fine for a double panel service or with a sub somewhere. My "new" thing is to almost always install a sub in a house.
Any small house less than 1500ft
I do full size for any new stuff but this is why the 3048
13 afcis
2 2poles gfi
Ac has 3 wire to it and so when Tia is gone spa gfi can go in so mini if wanted
Surge goes in on 2 space mini if wanted
WH on mini if wanted
Any small 20a or 30a heat on mini if wanted

A 3048 is 100 bucks cheaper than the 4040 I'd rather do 2 3048 panels than 1 4040.
 

letgomywago

Senior Member
Location
Washington state and Oregon coast
Occupation
residential electrician
Definitely. I hate making up a full or nearly full 40 space. Takes forever, got to be real neat and careful to have it be nice in the end, and it's still packed and just not my fav. I'm the guy who has a 66 space true panelboard in my house, so I get real grumpy quick not having a luxurious amount of space 😂
Is it the NQ one that takes both regular and bolt on qo
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I priced out the replacement, and a 3048 with 6 tandems was about the same cost as a 4060 without tandems, and my main supplier doesn't have any Siemens tandems in stock anyway. I don't see the value in going from a 3030 to a 3048 when tandems are 5x the cost of a single cct breaker.


The panel I'm looking at is a 3030 with 6 tandems already installed, so unless they notched the bus...
Non CTL tandems will fit any slot, even in a panel not designed to take tandems.

Not too familiar with Siemens and their tandems, but guessing they have non CTL versions.

Non CTL versions are intended to be replacements for tandems that existed before CTL came along, which was like in early to mid 1970's I believe. They have no "rejection feature".
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Is it the NQ one that takes both regular and bolt on qo
Yes it does.

AFAIK there is no QOB tandems and the NQ panel has no features to accept QOT breakers either.

But since the 42 circuit rule disappeared they started making up to 84 circuit NQ panels as well.

They get a little tall when you add a 400 amp main breaker kit to them.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I usually Siemens and it's nice they come with two ground bars. SQ D drives me crazy , have to buy them separately 😡
Square D depends on exactly what catalog number the supplier stocks. They sell many of the main lug load centers with ground bars included at the supply house but big box stores seem to like to stock the ones without ground bars. Square D load centers often do have a place on end opposite the mains for a horizontal mounted ground bar as well.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I have a collection of grounding buses I have removed from panels over the years.
I have collection of things I have removed over the years and kind of wonder at times why I kept most those items. Particularly the items that have been discontinued or at least replaced by newer design.
 

CoolWill

Senior Member
Location
Alabama
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I have a collection of grounding buses I have removed from panels over the years.
An old ground bar comes in handy as a splice in a pinch. I recently needed to convert from aluminum to copper but didn't have any means handy. I ended up cutting off a few pieces of a ground bar each with two screws. A healthy wrap with some good tape and it was done.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
An old ground bar comes in handy as a splice in a pinch. I recently needed to convert from aluminum to copper but didn't have any means handy. I ended up cutting off a few pieces of a ground bar each with two screws. A healthy wrap with some good tape and it was done.
Yes I done that sort of thing before. Combo lugs off 400 amp equipment that accept one or two conductors make great temporary splices on 200 amp conductors when needed in a pinch as well.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
An old ground bar comes in handy as a splice in a pinch. I recently needed to convert from aluminum to copper but didn't have any means handy. I ended up cutting off a few pieces of a ground bar each with two screws. A healthy wrap with some good tape and it was done.
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