What is a Vending Machine?

[physis]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

I tried to find a link but it looks like you need to subscribe.

 

[sandsnow]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

No, go to codes and standards, and then code development, then proposals ROP and it should be on the left

 

[hurk27]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

physis You have to have the Adobe Acro-Batt Reader to view PDF format files Then you can just click on the link Larry provided.

It's a free download from here:

GET YOUR FREE ADOBE READER Adobe.com

[ November 09, 2004, 01:27 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]

 

[iwire]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
File under dumb *** NEC requirements.

 

[physis]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Thank you Wayne, but I have that. I was hoping to find a link for the Webster's 11th edition Collegiate Dictionary.

 

[safari49]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

If the "machine" is located out doors then 2005 210.8.B.4 will require the protection, because if such "machine" is in a space not accessable to the public what is it's purpose? So the issue is for indoor units.

tom

 

[rbalex]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Originally posted by sandsnow:
Sam
Prepare to be happier, maybe

The dictionary is referenced in the NFPA manual of style. Section 3.2.1.2 Link below:

http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/MOS1-3.pdf

Quote manual below:
Spelling and definitions of general words and terms shall follow Websters Collegiate Dictionary, 11th Edition.

So does anyone have one of these?

What I don't know is if this is to be used when enforcing the nec.

The Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary, 11th Edition is available online here as a subscription service.

I'm surprised; in 11 years on various NFPA Tech Committees it was never mentioned once. I remember debating the definition of "means" on NFPA 496-1998. I THOUGHT I was fairly familiar with the Manuals of Style too.

Great catch Larry.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Originally posted by iwire:

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
File under dumb *** NEC requirements.

I don't think it is the job of the NEC to govern this type of equipment. To me this sets a bad precedent and if I were with the UL or another NRTL I would have a huge problem with this. Where does the line get drawn? Of course I do not want to see people hurt or killed but I don't like this approach. Why only vending machines?

 

[jimwalker]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Requiring them to have there own gfci just might save a few lives.They will make thousands from the machine so let them spend a few bucks

 

[steve66]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

But if the GFI is inside the vending machine, it won't solve the problem that has happened in the past. For example, assume the ground pin gets broke off the machines plug. Then the machine gets moved so it sets on the hot conductor of the line cord. Any GFI inside the machine will be helpless to see this fault (and even if it could see the fault, it would be helpless to shut off the power to the fault).

I think the vending machines should be required to have a GFI device on their plug (like my hair dryer).

Steve

 

[iwire]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Originally posted by steve66:
But if the GFI is inside the vending machine, it won't solve the problem that has happened in the past. For example, assume the ground pin gets broke off the machines plug. Then the machine gets moved so it sets on the hot conductor of the line cord. Any GFI inside the machine will be helpless to see this fault (and even if it could see the fault, it would be helpless to shut off the power to the fault).

I think the vending machines should be required to have a GFI device on their plug (like my hair dryer).

Steve

Steve the NEC sees it that way also, the integral GFCI must be no more than 12" from the plug.

422.51 Cord-and-Plug-Connected Vending Machines

Cord-and-plug-connected vending machines manufactured or re-manufactured on or after January 1, 2005, shall include a ground-fault circuit interrupter as an integral part of the attachment plug or located in the power supply cord within 300 mm (12 in.) of the attachment plug. Cord-and-plug-connected vending machines not incorporating integral GFCI protection shall be connected to a GFCI protected outlet.

 

[sandsnow]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
I don't think it is the job of the NEC to govern this type of equipment. To me this sets a bad precedent and if I were with the UL or another NRTL I would have a huge problem with this. Where does the line get drawn? Of course I do not want to see people hurt or killed but I don't like this approach. Why only vending machines?

The precedent has already been set with portable electric signs. See GFCI req's in 600-10(c)(2) Also the NEC specifies how RV's are to be wired. It also defines how raceways and cables are to be constructed. So, there are many products covered by the NEC already.

I don't understand the problem you reference with if you were a NRTL

I think the vending machine has come in because of recent accidents. Someone has commented on this before.

 

[sandsnow]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Originally posted by rbalex:

Great catch Larry.

Thanks Bob

 

[kiss]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Do they make a single receptical 120V 20Amps?
Since almost all the vending machines we wire require a dedicated line. In most cases instaling a GFI C/B is not an option due to old/odd breakers and all are bolt on type, and offcourse the price of a GFI bolt on.

 

[hurk27]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Kiss
I have only seen them as a switch receptacle combo
If the GFCI receptacle is behind the machine I would just install the duplex GFCI as these machines are to heavy to move for any one to use the extra receptacle.

 

[jap2525]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

I know for a fact that an ATM is not a vending machine for the simple reason that when I put something in it,,,,,,,,,,,,,nothing comes back out.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

jap if you put your card in it money should come back out.OOPS i forgot your an electrician too so maybe no money will come out

 

[tshea]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

This will be interesting to see what machines are classified as vending. Take a laundromat for instance. Money goes in and a service is provided not merchandise. ATMs--again a service not merchandise. The ice machine is only a freezer. The clerk takes the money, not the freezer.

 

[jap2525]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Originally posted by jimwalker:
jap if you put your card in it money should come back out.OOPS i forgot your an electrician too so maybe no money will come out

nothing will be as funny as your boy pulling that truck home with 10/2 in your previous post,,,,,,,,I laugh every time I think about that.That was your post wasn't it?

 

[physis]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

I Checked the Table of Possibly Unenforceable and Vague Terms. Vending Machine wasn't in there. (Just making sure )

But, looking at the examples below the table I could imagine some uses where "vending Machine" could easily violate the spirit of avoiding vague terms.

It's funny, they write this list of vague words because it's pretty obvious that words like familiar and mostly make enforement too problematic. And then they name the list Possibbly Unenforceable and Vague Terms. Possibly, are they still not quite convinced. Are they saying, ya know, I think we should give some of these words another chance befor we completely decide.