What is "Industrial"?

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zog

zog

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Stemming from brians post about van logos, what do you consider "Industrial"?

I believe it is impossible to do residential and industrial. Industrial is Steel mills, car plants, paper mills, mines, stuff like that.

MV cables, Basler relays, vacuum circuit breakers, 480V double ended-substations with draw out switchgear, in-house steam plants with power generation capabillity, emergency DG systems, 3000kVA 13.8kV to 480V transformers (Dry and liquid), etc....

That is what I think is industrial, buts I am interested to see what others call industrial.

IMO there is no way 1 guy can be compentent in residential and industrial, I know industrial systems, but would even think about doing residential work, it is apples and oranges.
 
If you can wait until 2011 the NEC will hopefully clarify the term industrial. I believe there is a task force being assembled for that purpose. (Rumors). I get the feeling that the term industrial is where a manufacturing process or similar is on going and in general staffed by qualified or supervised maintenance people.
 
cpal said:
I get the feeling that the term industrial is where a manufacturing process or similar is on going and in general staffed by qualified or supervised maintenance people.
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That would be my definition of industrial also.
 
zog said:
Stemming from brians post about van logos, what do you consider "Industrial"?

I believe it is impossible to do residential and industrial. Industrial is Steel mills, car plants, paper mills, mines, stuff like that.

MV cables, Basler relays, vacuum circuit breakers, 480V double ended-substations with draw out switchgear, in-house steam plants with power generation capabillity, emergency DG systems, 3000kVA 13.8kV to 480V transformers (Dry and liquid), etc....

That is what I think is industrial, buts I am interested to see what others call industrial.

IMO there is no way 1 guy can be compentent in residential and industrial, I know industrial systems, but would even think about doing residential work, it is apples and oranges.
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i agree with you. i do residential/light commercial (and i mean light). i wouldn't dare think about advertising or bidding on industrial work.
 
brantmacga said:
i agree with you. i do residential/light commercial (and i mean light). i wouldn't dare think about advertising or bidding on industrial work.
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I agree with brant.

When I started as an electrician it was in an industrial setting. That was a long time ago and I have been doing resi/light commercial for a long time since.

I would not know where to start if bidding on industrial. I stay away.
 
Ever now and then we get a call from am industrial customer, but out ad's say residential, commercial, the reason they call is when an industrial electrician quotes them $300 an hour they start calling the smaller companies, thinking they are cheaper.
 
Folks an add in the yellow pages that states that you do residential, commerical and industrial is not going to get you the chance to bid the new GM plant.

The only thing it's going to get is some small industrial operation that's to small to have an electrical staff when they call to have you replace a bad motor starter.

There are all kinds of light industrial operations around and many don't have anything above three phase 208 for power. For every big company out there, there are a dozen small ones and many do not employ enough people to have a full time maintenance staff.

There are both heavy industrial and light industrial operations all over the country. It's very hard to get in with the major operations but many of the smaller operations are just start-up companies, either that or it's a family owned business that manufactures widgets.

I know of several small facilities that only employ between 25-50 people and they do not have a full time electrical staff. The have some sort of maintenance person that will repair machines but every so often they will need the services of a real electrician.

It may not be GM but it's still industrial and it's still money.

 
zog said:
Stemming from brians post about van logos, what do you consider "Industrial"?

I believe it is impossible to do residential and industrial. Industrial is Steel mills, car plants, paper mills, mines, stuff like that.

MV cables, Basler relays, vacuum circuit breakers, 480V double ended-substations with draw out switchgear, in-house steam plants with power generation capabillity, emergency DG systems, 3000kVA 13.8kV to 480V transformers (Dry and liquid), etc....

That is what I think is industrial, buts I am interested to see what others call industrial.

IMO there is no way 1 guy can be compentent in residential and industrial, I know industrial systems, but would even think about doing residential work, it is apples and oranges.
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I have to disagree.

I am very capable of wiring a new house on Monday, then "old working" new outlets in an existing house on Tuesday, Then adding lights, receptacles, phone, and data lines in a commercial office on Wednesday, then installing a new 480v 100a line to a new machine in an industrial factory on Thursday, then take off Friday because i'm tired.......... and need a day off.......

:)

I have been in the electrical field since I was 14, I'm now 45.

I may not be able to wire a new GM building, but that doesn't mean I can't do industrial work someplace else.
 
zog said:
IMO there is no way 1 guy can be competent in residential and industrial, I know industrial systems, but would even think about doing residential work, it is apples and oranges.
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Competence isn't required, just a license. ;)

So long as your (state) license doesn't discriminate by class of work...
why should your advertising?
 
I do PLC programming for some industrial customers and we do scale card calibrations. I don't do a lot but stone cutting and polishing plants need EC's that can help add a machine or trouble shoot a problem. Thats industrial LIGHT but still industrial and we do light comercial as well. Most of my work is Residential but I am willing to take on any electrical job that I can handle why shouldn't I?

I am one of those little guys who has Industrial on my van, I don't advertise outside of that.
 
Since there is no formal definition of 'industrial electrician,' I could just as easily get a call from the local factory, change out a couple of T12s in their office, and call myself an industrial electrician.
 
roger3829 said:
I have to disagree.

I am very capable of wiring a new house on Monday, then "old working" new outlets in an existing house on Tuesday, Then adding lights, receptacles, phone, and data lines in a commercial office on Wednesday, then installing a new 480v 100a line to a new machine in an industrial factory on Thursday, then take off Friday because i'm tired.......... and need a day off.......

:)

I have been in the electrical field since I was 14, I'm now 45.

I may not be able to wire a new GM building, but that doesn't mean I can't do industrial work someplace else.
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i don't think anyone is saying you may be incapable roger of having the knowledge to do the work, but if you're going to do industrial you have to buy the tools for industrial; and doing residential work isn't going to help pay for those tools. my license allows me to do any type of electrical contracting work, but i know i don't have the resources to handle it.

residential can easily cover the costs of a hole hawg, but it ain't paying for a new hydraulic bender. not to mention the added insurance/bonds you'll probably need.
 
brantmacga said:
i don't think anyone is saying you may be incapable roger of having the knowledge to do the work, but if you're going to do industrial you have to buy the tools for industrial; and doing residential work isn't going to help pay for those tools. my license allows me to do any type of electrical contracting work, but i know i don't have the resources to handle it.

residential can easily cover the costs of a hole hawg, but it ain't paying for a new hydraulic bender. not to mention the added insurance/bonds you'll probably need.
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Guy I used to work for had hydraulic wire benders, cutters, and crimpers.
I imagine the cost of tools would be a sizable investment... but as someone pointed out, there might be a big return too.

My opinion is that there is more NEC stuff that doesn't necessarily have much to do with electricity in residential wiring than industrial. I think most of the industrial stuff has more to do with the circuits' functionality.


And I almost forgot... I don't like romex.:)
 
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realolman said:
Guy I used to work for had hydraulic wire benders, cutters, and crimpers.
I imagine the cost of tools would be a sizable investment... but as someone pointed out, there might be a big return too.
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possibly a big return, but what i'm saying is, you can't be setup for large scale industrial and do residential work; you'll spend all your money paying off your nice shiny industrial gear.
 
roger3829 said:
I have to disagree.

I am very capable of wiring a new house on Monday, then "old working" new outlets in an existing house on Tuesday, Then adding lights, receptacles, phone, and data lines in a commercial office on Wednesday, then installing a new 480v 100a line to a new machine in an industrial factory on Thursday, then take off Friday because i'm tired.......... and need a day off.......

:)

I have been in the electrical field since I was 14, I'm now 45.

I may not be able to wire a new GM building, but that doesn't mean I can't do industrial work someplace else.
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couldnt have said it better myself. Ive noticed a certain snobbery coming from guys that do industrial work all the time. They seem think they are the only ones that understand or should be allowed to do stop/starts, plc's, bending pipe.
 
brantmacga said:
possibly a big return, but what i'm saying is, you can't be setup for large scale industrial and do residential work; you'll spend all your money paying off your nice shiny industrial gear.
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In other words, there are certain tools required for industrial work that cause a higher overhead cost, so you have to bill enough work at that higher rate to cover the associated overhead.
 
Its not impossible to do residential, commercial, and industrial....

Its not impossible to do residential, commercial, and industrial....

this week I have done work in a nursing home, church, business offices, 2 resturants, a large warehouse, and a residence (my first residential call in a while, not my main focus) I also have a couple of small factories and machine shops that I do service calls for, usually running conduit and pulling circuits for new equipment, and troubleshooting and replaceing motors, lights etc... I concider myself a commercial, light industrial electrician but I will do whatever I need to do to keep money coming in. I know my limitations, and I have no problem refering work that is beyond my capabilities to a friend that has a larger company that is geared more to heavy industrial work....
 
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