what is the correct way to hook up a generator

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

When it comes to safety I'm always interested. I found a site that you may be interested in ( near the end are the good ones ). Workers Deaths by Electrocution, a summary of NIOSH surveillance and investigative findings. I even found one where a lineman was killed by a portable generator. 90-05 Lineman electrocuted while attaching a 2400 V. power line to a pole mounted insulator. Victim assured by supervisor that line was de-energized , but it was in fact energized by a portable generator. So Charlie tell your friends to always check things out for themselves and never trust a supervisor. I've had the power company try to fire me up twice, but I don't hold a grudge. This site is almost as good as the Darwin Awards. http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/pdfs/98-131.pdf
 
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

If it a small generator just run cords to the stuff you need poewered temporaraly.
 
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

I was only suggesting a temp back feed to a fellow electrician,not a home owner or customer.Also did qualify it with him being in charge and no body else touching it.
My inter lock does not look cheasy at all.Total time to build that part was maybe 1 hour and cost me $5 plus a breaker i already owned.Will admit it took many many hours to figure out a safe cheap way.I stole the idea from a lift station panel i seen on one of our jobs.

The idea of cords on a floor for days or weeks could be even a bigger hazard.Many of us learned from last year.I been in Florida since 1973 and up till last year never took hurricanes very seriously.Far cheaper to buy a good generator $500 than buy canned food and supplies every time a hurricane comes.
 
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

I understand that Florida has these large storms, and I sympathize, but don't count NY as never losing power.
My office loses power at least 3 times per year and there are many who may lose their power for 1 to several days.

You have hurricanes, we have ICE, SNOW and other storms that will kill our power. We had a rain storm last week that left many buildings with 8 feet of water in the basements - you know what basements are Jim? :D

Last weeks rain storm - I electrically condemned the Hilton hotel, and they will be closed for months, if they even open again (there was structural damage as well). I never saw so much grass, leaves and branches in a 3000 amp service :D
 
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

Originally posted by jimwalker:
I was only suggesting a temp back feed to a fellow electrician,not a home owner or customer.Also did qualify it with him being in charge and no body else touching it.
My inter lock does not look cheasy at all.Total time to build that part was maybe 1 hour and cost me $5 plus a breaker i already owned.Will admit it took many many hours to figure out a safe cheap way.I stole the idea from a lift station panel i seen on one of our jobs.
Click to expand...
Jim it sounds very cheesy. :roll:

If you want to hang your rear out in the wind for a possible civil action or worse more power to you. :roll:

I prefer to limit my personal liability by following the rules.

Originally posted by jimwalker:
The idea of cords on a floor for days or weeks could be even a bigger hazard.
Click to expand...
I doubt it and beyond that the cords would be legal.

To any of you that may be asked to Micky-mouse temp power please take a minute to ask yourself a few things.

Is this persons convenience worth risking your money or business for?

Is this persons convenience worth risking peoples lives?

Is this customer who is begging you to just make it work, going to be your friend in court if the stuff hits the fan, or are they going to bury you in court to get more from your insurance carrier?

'Stuff' does happen and we all need to think of what would be the outcome if 'stuff' happens to us. You can be the worlds best electrician and it can still happen.

If you hold an electrical license the courts (IMO) will hold you to a much higher standard than if the work was done by a Handyman.

You have the training, you know the rules, if choose to ignore the rules IMO you have really left yourself wide open to liability.

[ July 11, 2005, 06:34 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

With the ready availablity of relatively inexpensive natural gas generators, I often wonder why FL residents do not install backup generators.

It seems like a natural fit for FL.

NG service is not usually off in the aftermath of a hurricane or other distrubanceof electrical power.
 
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

In my 54 years I have never heard of a person tripping over a drop cord and burning their insides of even dying. Could someone document a case for me? :D :D :D
 
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

"
These small generators are not designed to back feed a breaker and energize a complete panel. They are designed to be used with cords. I bet that is why they come with receptacles.

Let?s not forget that should small generator be connected to a panel and some electronic device gets destroyed that the one doing the connections will bear the burden of replacement. How much is a big screen plasma and DVD player these days?

Is this not what the home owner does with 5000 watts, keep the refrig going with a few lights and the TV for the kids? Gosh it is getting hot in here let?s turn on the air for a few minutes. Can we heat up something to eat in the microwave? Call old sparky back this da? thing has blown up and the TV is smoking. I hope he has good insurance. Shut that refrig door before everything spoils, where is that d?m electrician, did you call him. "

Lets take this one step at a time.
1. the one i bought came with a 4 prong twist 20 amp plug.Why did they give me it if they only wanted me to use the 2 duplex receptacles ?
2. they have circuit breakers on the generator and if you back feed or use a tranfer switch you will likely have another breaker to limit load on the generator.There is no reason it should damage anything.It supplies 120/240 at 60 cycles sine wave.
3.home owner wants frig first,then some lights,perhaps a water pump at 240 to fill toilets and shower.
4 should he overload it the breaker trips.Whats hurt by that ? Turn a few things off and reset.
5. unless you been without power for days you might not think like those that have.
6 if one selects there loads there is no reason 5,000 watts can't make life easier in a power outage.
7.The real issue here is the way we connect it.Should someone put a transfer switch or interlocking device then i see no problem.
8. we must understand that a permit does nothing more than get a second opinion on any install.It does not garranty every thing is code compliant.
9. how something looks does not make it safe or unsafe
10. something that simply was not UL listed does not mean its unsafe.Just means it was not tested.

Bob ,how can you call it cheesy without seeing it ? No it was not custom built in a machine shop but that does not make it poor quality.Ever look at the breaker lock outs for a cutler hammer.Now thats cheesy and with a good yank on the pad lock i will pull it right off.

I would far prefer that a back up generator be installed permanently but when you have a hurricane only hours from your doors you do what you must to keep life going.Only reason a lineman would get hurt is because of a non alert person not turning the main off.Perhaps a dissconnect before the meter is a good idea.It could be turned off and pad locked.
 
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

Originally posted by jimwalker:
but when you have a hurricane only hours from your doors you do what you must to keep life going.
Click to expand...
We are talking about Florida. Don't we hear about these impending hurricanes months before they even happen????
This is why I don't buy the "You do what you have to in an emergency" mantra. If you know something bad will most likely happen, you do not wait until 3 hours before it happens to do something about it.
Sorry, just my lil' ol' opinion.


I will say, anyone who blames the electrician for blowing up their plasma TV doesn't deserve to have a plasma TV!
Who's generator is it? I assume it is the property of the homeowner. If they want to run the good $10,000 TV in a state of emergency they should have bought a better generator before the emergency ever happened.
It is not how the generator is hooked up that blows up electronics, it's cheap generators.

[ July 11, 2005, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: speedypetey ]
 
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

Originally posted by jimwalker:
Bob ,how can you call it cheesy without seeing it ?
Click to expand...
Oh I don't know, I am just strange like that. :roll:

Originally posted by jimwalker:
I used a dummy 2 pole breaker to hold a sleeve that has a steel 1/4 inch by 5 inches rod.The dummy breaker goes into space #1 & 3 with it turned on.It does not hook to any wires and only holds the sleeve.I used J B WELD to hold the sleeve.Now into # 5 & 7 i installed 20 amp 2 pole for the generator.The pin slides so that i can only have the generator breaker or the main breaker on at one time.
Click to expand...
When 'electricians?' start using JB Weld to modify a breaker my mind tends to think, HEY that sounds pretty f-ing cheesy

I can believe you did it, I can not believe you would post about it then try to say it is better than a factory made assembly.

Again I point out if any of this 'shoemaker' equipment causes a problem you are up the creek without a paddle.

Now I know what your answer will be here.

"Nothing will happen."

Jim stuff does happen and if you ask the people involved all them will say the same thing.

I did not think anything would happen
 
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

"We are talking about Florida. Don't we hear about these impending hurricanes months before they even happen????"

No we don't.My vacation got cut short a day because of the limited time we have from when the storm starts to it's landing.Dennis was not ever herd about on July the 1st ,on wed the 6th we learned of it.Often we have only a few days warning.Thousands of generators have been sold in the last month here.People have lost trust in weather men and power companies.Last years problems were mostly over the lack of poles and transformers.Sorry but they could have got them here by semi trucks a lot faster if they had wanted too.Yes there is a danger of back feeders and also in having so much gas sitting around in cans.Last year was the worst i ever seen in 32 years.

The only safe place to be is where they say it will hit ;)

[ July 11, 2005, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

Jim, do you think FL is the only state hit by Heavy Weather? (BTW, I loved the album)

Roger

[ July 11, 2005, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

Jim, I am not talking about a particular storm.

In Fla it is a given you will have at least one hurricane hit land every year. So if you are scrambling to get a genset hooked up because you heard a storm is a comin', you are a foolish procrastinator.
 
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

Originally posted by speedypetey:
In Fla it is a given you will have at least one hurricane hit land every year. So if you are scrambling to get a genset hooked up because you heard a storm is a comin', you are a foolish procrastinator.
Click to expand...
Petey, I'm not sure about every year, (it seems as though the 90's were the Carolinas decade) but I whole heartedly agree with the rest of your post.

Roger
 
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

"I can believe you did it, I can not believe you would post about it then try to say it is better than a factory made assembly."
Bob,where did i say it was better than factory ?
I tried to buy something factory made but nothing was available.I had very limited space and no place to put a transfer switch.What i did is copy of a similar arangement i seen that was factory.It very much is fool proof.There is no way both main and generator breakers could both be turned on.Actualy i should contact CH and maybe sell them my idea.The same basic idea might work on some other panels.Only down side is i lost 2 spaces.
 
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

Originally posted by speedypetey:
Jim, I am not talking about a particular storm.

In Fla it is a given you will have at least one hurricane hit land every year. So if you are scrambling to get a genset hooked up because you heard a storm is a comin', you are a foolish procrastinator.
Click to expand...
My thoughts exactly.

Kind of reminds me of the dummies up here that have to rush out to get a snow shovel before a big storm and the news must of course report that the stores are out of shovels. It snows all winter for cryin' out loud. Are these nuts buying disposable shovels?

[ July 11, 2005, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
It snows all winter for cryin' out loud. Are these nuts buying disposable shovels?
Click to expand...
You mean I can use them more than one storm? :eek:
 
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

Last year woke a lot of us up,me included.We never thought it might be weeks to get power back.Sams club had generators on flat carts ready to go and some bought 4 or 5 at a time.I seen at least 10 passing me on the way in.They can not stock enough of them.We are likely in for another very bad year.
 
Re: what is the correct way to hook up a generator

Jim I am not going around with you on this.

You are trying by any means you can think of to justify poor plaining and hack work.

For Pete's sake go back read your own posts. :roll:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top