what to do about fuel costs

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nakulak said:
sorry, dude, but drilling holes in the ground and pumping the air full of deadly gasses isn't the answer. for the 3 trillion dollars spend lately on bombs we could have working alternatives... .

Amen. Amen. and Amen.

Oh yeah... Amen

There's no way we can continue like we been doin.

You ( meaning everybody in every business ) are not going to be able to continue to pass your costs on to the consumer beacuse the consumer is about outta pocketbook.

This is a serious problem, and the same lame ol' stuff (ANWAR , tree huggers, reserves ...etc. ) ain't gonna cut it.

I hope no one's laughin too hard at the pedal powered service trucks. I don't think it's funny.

You do remember seeing pictures of India and China from 20 years ago don't you?
 
mdshunk said:
I'm thinking I might become Amish. Many of the Amish subs need to have the GC's pick them up and take them back home each day.

How would you call in sick if you don't have a phone? You would also have to give up your cordless drill and megger.....:smile:
 
no-politics.gif
 
I take my car on estimates and for going to the mailbox and running to the bank. The price of gas in jersey is the cheapest we are about at a 3.80 a gallon
 
I don't see how this topic could avoid at least touching on politics, since we are talking about core issues that could change the face of our economy, our environment, and our very way of life. At the same time, we have to remember that beyond politics there is the reality of the situation, and that if we can offer ideas and suggestions outside of politics, maybe we'll come up with some useful approaches that will actually make a difference.

Drilling ANWR would help keep oil prices lower. Any new source of oil would do that. At the same time, I think that it is important to understand how much of a difference ANWR could make; current estimates place the size of the reserves in ANWR as equal to US consumption for 1 or 2 years. Obviously the US wouldn't get all of its oil from a single source until it was tapped dry; but say that we pumped 1 million barrels per day (about 5% of US consumption) from this reserve; the reserve would last perhaps 20-40 years, but only make a very small change in oil prices or energy independence. IMHO ANWR would make about as much difference as getting people to carpool for 1 commute per week (but I've not really done the numbers in details, and am willing to be convinced otherwise.)

We could do something like build enough drilling and pumping capacity so that the US _could_ get all of it oil domestically; but then elect to keep that capacity in reserve, buying oil from the cheapest sources, but if needed we could turn the switch and basically boycott external sources. That might get them to keep their prices lower...but all of the necessary unused capacity would essentially amount to a tremendous tax.

Nuclear power is another approach, on that is both potentially much cleaner but also much scarier than continuing to burn oil.

The problem with nuclear power is the waste issue; the discussion of waste gets focused on things such 'how do we bury the stuff for thousands of years', but the _real_ way to deal with nuclear waste is 'nuclear incineration' or 'actinide burning'. Basically this involves processing the used fuel, and separating out the various radioactive species to be dealt with in an individually appropriate fashion. (The really violently radioactive stuff is just stored; it is gone after only a few months; the stuff that lasts millions of years isn't particularly dangerous so you bury it, and everything in between you run through the reactor again to convert into one of the two extremes.) The problem with this is that you have to use exactly the same isotope separation technology that you need to build a bomb; so using nuclear power becomes a problem of _people_; do you trust other people with access to the technology to build atomic bombs.

Biofuels are an attractive possibility, but right now we still don't know how to do them. Corn ethanol has been a disaster; a political sop to big agribusiness with lots of green paint; the problem is that it is not energy positive as currently done. Soy biodiesel is at least energy positive by a significant amount, but we don't have the available cropland.

I could babble on and on :)

-Jon
 
Here are some "no politics" facts about energy reserves.

-There is only so much of it the ground.

-The world population continues to grow and developing nations are demanding and using those resources. We are not the only kid on the block with a big appetite for oil anymore.

-Ever increasing demand on a finite resource will continue to push prices higher (basic economics) The current price pressure can only be alleviated by a large drop in demand (world wide recession/depression, major advance in auto technology that replaces our current fleet, etc)

-Most of the worlds oil has been located and the worlds reserves have been fully tapped out. Even additional supplies like ANWR will produce only a marginal increase in the supply, as Winnie pointed out. That increase in the supply will be offset by ever increasing demand.

So high prices are here to stay for the time being.
 
peter d said:
Here are some "no politics" facts about energy reserves.

-There is only so much of it the ground.

-The world population continues to grow and developing nations are demanding and using those resources. We are not the only kid on the block with a big appetite for oil anymore.

-Ever increasing demand on a finite resource will continue to push prices higher (basic economics) The current price pressure can only be alleviated by a large drop in demand (world wide recession/depression, major advance in auto technology that replaces our current fleet, etc)

-Most of the worlds oil has been located and the worlds reserves have been fully tapped out. Even additional supplies like ANWR will produce only a marginal increase in the supply, as Winnie pointed out. That increase in the supply will be offset by ever increasing demand.

So high prices are here to stay for the time being.
All very good reasons to get more nuclear power online.
 
mdshunk said:
All very good reasons to get more nuclear power online.

I agree, it's a real shame that the nuclear option has been ignored for the last 30 or so years. But the reasons for that are purely political. :roll:
 
winnie said:
we could turn the switch and basically boycott external sources.

Yes please.

If America were to stop buying oil on the international market then that would free up supply for China and India, and the world oil price would drop. Maybe even low enough so we could go back to OPEC regulating the prices. Heck, even Zimbabwe might be able to afford oil again.
 
My boss pays my fuel and for that Im grateful.....*knocks on wood
No rate increase since 2006 but Im sure that won't last much longer.
 
The US consumes roughly 20 million gallons of oil per day which equates to 476,190 barrels per day. ANWR holds an ESTIMATED 6 to 16 billion barrels. Notice the word estimated. Do you remember Giraldo and Al Capone's vaults? To dig up 20000 acres and find nothing would be bad. Still the problem won't go away. It is still a finite item. This is why I asked if anyone had a good idea. I would love to ask old timers in the business what they did in the past but I am thinking this might be different than then. I wasn't around then but I don't think China and India were players then. If it wasn't them it was someone else and still, I don't think it was to the extent it is today. I am fortunately busy. What I can't do anymore is free estimates. What I want to do is like Marc said and tighten my geographical circle. Which is exactly what I will start focusing on starting Tuesday.
 
bobbyho said:
....What I want to do is like Marc said and tighten my geographical circle. Which is exactly what I will start focusing on starting Tuesday.

I think this may be one of the effects.

I read what was a very interesting article in a magazine on a subject that I would have thought was very boring... Zoning.

Everything we do has been designed for driving.

Maybe there will be a return to neighborhoods and local stores and services..
 
Unlike you guys I don't have all the answers. ;)

I do know this though. Every time the price of fuel goes up, (hourly it seems) I take a paycut.

Pass the cost on to the customer.
 
bobbyho said:
The US consumes roughly 20 million gallons of oil per day which equates to 476,190 barrels per day. ANWR holds an ESTIMATED 6 to 16 billion barrels. Notice the word estimated. Do you remember Giraldo and Al Capone's vaults? To dig up 20000 acres and find nothing would be bad. Still the problem won't go away. It is still a finite item. This is why I asked if anyone had a good idea. I would love to ask old timers in the business what they did in the past but I am thinking this might be different than then. I wasn't around then but I don't think China and India were players then. If it wasn't them it was someone else and still, I don't think it was to the extent it is today. I am fortunately busy. What I can't do anymore is free estimates. What I want to do is like Marc said and tighten my geographical circle. Which is exactly what I will start focusing on starting Tuesday.

Yoy might want to check your numbers again. The US consumes over 20 million Barrels a day, not gallons.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_con-energy-oil-consumption
 
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