What Would You Do?

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macmikeman said:
Around here they set that switchboard outside next to the drive-thru lane, so it gets adjusted in and out of plumb about twice a year by ''outside contractors'' anyhow.
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I always laugh at the national chains that use the same outdoor gear setup in this wet and wintery climate. You'd think they would adjust it for the different regions where they build stores, but apparently not. Outdoor gear just doesn't happen here other than your typical meter stacks.
 
sparkyrick said:
Brand new 2' bubble level. I'm gonna confirm with my PLS laser plumb tomorrow. If I'm right, the gear stays. If my brand new 2' level, which I used during the install was off, it moves.
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A bubble level isn't perfect to begin with plus you are going to have the variations in the metal of the cabinet, those are far from perfect, and you are only checking one fifth of it with your level. A plumb bob is the only way to be accurate. A real plumb bob, not the laser ones, those things can be off as much as a bubble level.

Still, if you leave a gap there nobody is going to say, "Look at that wall, it's a half an inch off from top to bottom." Everybody that looks at it is going to say, "Why is that cabinet crooked?" or "Who left that big gap there?"

Match it to the wall and nobody will say anything because it will look just fine. It's not like all the electrons are going puddle up in one corner.
 
ActionDave said:
A bubble level isn't perfect to begin with plus you are going to have the variations in the metal of the cabinet, those are far from perfect, and you are only checking one fifth of it with your level. A plumb bob is the only way to be accurate. A real plumb bob, not the laser ones, those things can be off as much as a bubble level.

Still, if you leave a gap there nobody is going to say, "Look at that wall, it's a half an inch off from top to bottom." Everybody that looks at it is going to say, "Why is that cabinet crooked?" or "Who left that big gap there?"

Match it to the wall and nobody will say anything because it will look just fine. It's not like all the electrons are going puddle up in one corner.
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I agree. "Correct" is what works best not necessarily what is perfectly plumb/level/square. A couple degrees is not going to be noticed until something comes along that is not installed to the same degree of error, or correctness. So unless you have equipment that will have it's operation effected by that leveling error it is kind of a so what deal.

What if the gear were in a corner and the corner of the room wasn't perfectly square? And one wall wasn't plumb?:eek:
 
sparkyrick said:
I recently set in place a new service/panelboard for a new Golden Arches and the the outside wall was so out-of-plumb, it looks like WE screwed up. The bottom is tight to the wall, but the top is over a half inch away from the wall. I could have tilted the gear a little bit so it matched the wall, but I decided not to. Guess I take too much pride in my work.
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Exactly why I would always make the electrical equipment match the structure. Just like running conduit on a brick or block wall...you match the mortar joint even if it is not plumb or level.
 
A half inch tolerance is in line with most (many?) construction specifications.
 
sparkyrick said:
I recently set in place a new service/panelboard for a new Golden Arches and the the outside wall was so out-of-plumb, it looks like WE screwed up. The bottom is tight to the wall, but the top is over a half inch away from the wall. I could have tilted the gear a little bit so it matched the wall, but I decided not to. Guess I take too much pride in my work.
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Many people think that work should be plumb and level so it looks good but that's not the real reason to make sure that everything is as plumb and level as possible. Things fit togather better when aligned properly.

I don't know if any conduit runs down into those panels from the ceiling but if you so they should also be plumb. If the panel is out of level then the conduit doesn't fit as well as it should ( the fitting is slightly cocked).

In my opinion you can't go wrong by having your work as straight and level as possible. If they don't like the gap they can calk it.
 
growler said:
Many people think that work should be plumb and level so it looks good but that's not the real reason to make sure that everything is as plumb and level as possible. Things fit togather better when aligned properly.
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Absolutely. Sheet goods do not fit well at all when things are not square anyway. Small room maybe you get away with some variance, but the larger the space the more off you get once you run some sheets all the way across the space. Old buildings with plaster and lath were never perfectly square, didn't really matter much when not using sheet goods to cover the walls/ ceilings.

I don't know if any conduit runs down into those panels from the ceiling but if you so they should also be plumb. If the panel is out of level then the conduit doesn't fit as well as it should ( the fitting is slightly cocked).
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If your conduit bend is not square might not matter anyway. I do find factory elbows that are a degree or two off at times as well so you can't count on those either. 1/2 and 3/4 conduits is usually not all that hard to deal with this problem either.
 
growler said:
Many people think that work should be plumb and level so it looks good but that's not the real reason to make sure that everything is as plumb and level as possible. Things fit togather better when aligned properly.

I don't know if any conduit runs down into those panels from the ceiling but if you so they should also be plumb. If the panel is out of level then the conduit doesn't fit as well as it should ( the fitting is slightly cocked).

In my opinion you can't go wrong by having your work as straight and level as possible. If they don't like the gap they can calk it.
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Not only that, but if the installation isnt plumb the electrons wont flow right :p
 
jusme123 said:
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not at all surprised, workmanship, its becoming a lost art
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Not for me, I take great pride in doing a quality install with all my work. Must be my OCD :)

Update: I was pondering resetting the service to match the crooked wall, until the carpenters laughed at how out-of-plumb THEIR wall was. I decided my level gear stays.
 
sparkyrick said:
Not for me, I take great pride in doing a quality install with all my work. Must be my OCD :)

Update: I was pondering resetting the service to match the crooked wall, until the carpenters laughed at how out-of-plumb THEIR wall was. I decided my level gear stays.
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I'm the same way, I do my best to install things level/plumb regardless of surroundings (with exceptions, such as conduit runs on ramps, etc)
 
sparkyrick said:
Not for me, I take great pride in doing a quality install with all my work. Must be my OCD :)

Update: I was pondering resetting the service to match the crooked wall, until the carpenters laughed at how out-of-plumb THEIR wall was. I decided my level gear stays.
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As a rule, I do not like 'creeping errors'. Wall isnt plumb, floor isnt level, corners arent square, siding isnt straight... not my problem. If you have to fudge it, then do so, but Id be damned if I set my switchgear out of plumb b/c the carpenters hosed up. My OCD would require a second level to verify my gear was plumb, but if it were, well, forget the framing. What if they decide to repair it at a later date, but cant , because your gear is flush with their messed up wall?
 
kwired said:
Then it becomes your problem again - maybe?
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Nope. One install. I dont do this type of install but if I did, the switchgear would be mounted vertical, regardless of if the wall was 0.5* out, or 45*, or not there. If I noticed the wall wasnt right beforehand, I'd mention it.

That kind of gear is made to be free-standing, yes? Provided the slab is level, I wouldnt give a hoot how the wall was made.
 
JFletcher said:
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That kind of gear is made to be free-standing, yes?...
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Not this particular type.

This type typically isn't open bottom in my experience. What's shown in the picture looks like there's a gutter or something missing that goes on the bottom. Open bottom gear typically has at least a framing member across the front bottom. If I'm wrong, another sign of changing times I guess.
 
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