What would you have done?

[melanconelectric]

Don't eliminate anything until you've verified and checked and double checked that it needs to be eliminated and then check with the HO again to see if they've changed their minds.

 

[jayrad1122]

Now that you are rethinking the situation the right thing to do would be to subtract the time spent relabeling the panel, which did not have any thing to do with the circuit problems, send the balance back with note saying that after reconsideration you failed to verify the circuits and that was covered under warranty. DO NOT send him a credit memo. You will wind up being this guys indentured servant.

But how are you now going to handle the code violation of the outdoor recpt. on the bath gfci circuit?

I will send him the balance with everything but just the time spent relabeling. About the outdoor outlet, it was like that since the house was built so would I have to change it to it's own circuit or just leave it on the bathroom where it was? I don't believe I need to change it b/c all I did was remove an outlet and replace it with a GFCI. The outdoor outlet is now protected by the bath GFCI.

 

[alfiesauce]

Outdoor outlet was an exsisting condition. May have been installed before it was not a violation of code to be wired in that manner.

 

[360Youth]

I will send him the balance with everything but just the time spent relabeling. About the outdoor outlet, it was like that since the house was built so would I have to change it to it's own circuit or just leave it on the bathroom where it was? I don't believe I need to change it b/c all I did was remove an outlet and replace it with a GFCI. The outdoor outlet is now protected by the bath GFCI.

I agree that it can stay as is. IMO I would have line sided the outdoor wire and put a GFI outside. I do not like outside GFIs but I like looking for one to reset even less. :smile:

 

[jmsbrush]

IMO this is a perfect reason why there needs to be Licensing in place. If I'm not mistaken PA does not do it. Just from the comments made it sounds like he does not have much Experience, this is not a knock on you at all, just what I'm observing in the comments made. That does not mean after you spend a long time in the union (as you stated) that you won't be qualified.

I know this topic has been talked about many times on here. Marc said on one of his post" you can wake up in the morning and if you want to be a contractor, your a contractor."

I would like to become a brain surgeon, Should I have those same rights?

I wish you all the best. Try to educate yourself in the electrical field as much as possible its always changing and evolving.

 

[iwire]

IMO this is a perfect reason why there needs to be Licensing in place.

I am not against licensing but IMO the fact someone has a license does not mean they are actually qualified to do anything.

Marc is not licensed but IMO he is qualified to do almost any electrical trade task.

 

[danickstr]

What happened to "the customer is always right". If they want me to waste time doing it their way, why do I have to refund them to do it my way.

I think educating the customer is part of the gig. I am not saying he should keep every penny, and any gesture at this point will get him a bit of praise from the HO, so keep it small, not to be greedy, but to remind the HO that their "help" is dubious at best.

Too many martyrs around here

 

[alfiesauce]

What happened to "the customer is always right". If they want me to waste time doing it their way, why do I have to refund them to do it my way.

I think educating the customer is part of the gig. I am not saying he should keep every penny, and any gesture at this point will get him a bit of praise from the HO, so keep it small, not to be greedy, but to remind the HO that their "help" is dubious at best.

Too many martyrs around here

It's called the desire to stay in business and earn an honest living.
He did not ask you to educate him either so why are you charging him for that? He may not have said it but he expected you to make things work correctly. Leaving a site without everything working is a mistake, unless you are aware of what is not working and the reason for it and every party involved is OK with it.

 

[peter d]

I am not against licensing but IMO the fact someone has a license does not mean they are actually qualified to do anything.

I agree, and if you factor the corruption that exists in the licensing process in some areas, a license is about as good as the paper it's written on.

 

[jmsbrush]

I am not against licensing but IMO the fact someone has a license does not mean they are actually qualified to do anything.

Marc is not licensed but IMO he is qualified to do almost any electrical trade task.

I Feel like Marc is a very smart guy too but thats not the point.

OK Real life scenario. You have to prove that you have a 12000 hours on the job experience from legitimate LIC EC's. 6000 of those hours had to be foreman or supervised. You also have to have certified letters from these contractors stating that you are competent in performing electrical work.
After all that you have to take a very hard exam which is based on the NEC,(our Bible).
Now I don't care what you say, but IMO, someone who has gone through that will be more qualified than someone in the trade that has been doing it for 6 months or 2 years thats decides when he wakes up in the morning," Hey I'm going to become an EC this week.
I'm sure Marc is a very good Electrician, But thats not good enough in allot of states.

 

[jmsbrush]

I am not against licensing but IMO the fact someone has a license does not mean they are actually qualified to do anything.

Marc is not licensed but IMO he is qualified to do almost any electrical trade task.

If your not agianst it Bob then why have it at all?

 

[growler]

I am not against licensing but IMO the fact someone has a license does not mean they are actually qualified to do anything.

Passing the bar does make a person a qualified lawyer but may not make him/her a good lawyer. Qualification and competence are not necessarily the same thing.

If a license is what's legally required for a person to perform a certain task and the person holds that license then the person is said to be qualified. They may not be very good at said task but they do have all of the required qualifications.

The english language is very tricky that's why we don't speak it down here. :grin:

 

[BryanMD]

How many times do we need to cover this material.

The issue is the distinction between a **contractor** and an employee of that contractor.

When you are in business (a contractor) you have to comply with whatever the (quite varying) requirements of the state/county/town may be and as a reasonably intelligent and self interested person you need to CYA with insurance.

If you are in an area that requires employees to have trade licenses then that is what you must do. If you are NOT in such a locale (most aren't) then you can hire anyone you like to operate under the aegis of YOUR license and YOUR permits and most of all... YOUR insurance.

Specific trade skill associated with the work or what the license is **presumed** to imply is a whole other can of worms.

 

[jmsbrush]

How many times do we need to cover this material.

.

As many times as it takes lol, There are always going to be new members coming in and they should have a right to a say what they feel is important.
I haven't made too many comments about it.

Everyone can have an op

 

[satcom]

I Feel like Marc is a very smart guy too but thats not the point.

OK Real life scenario. You have to prove that you have a 12000 hours on the job experience from legitimate LIC EC's. 6000 of those hours had to be foreman or supervised. You also have to have certified letters from these contractors stating that you are competent in performing electrical work.
After all that you have to take a very hard exam which is based on the NEC,(our Bible).
Now I don't care what you say, but IMO, someone who has gone through that will be more qualified than someone in the trade that has been doing it for 6 months or 2 years thats decides when he wakes up in the morning," Hey I'm going to become an EC this week.
I'm sure Marc is a very good Electrician, But thats not good enough in allot of states.

Well presented, however, some states the licensing is no more then a permit, and payment
In the states that have proven hours and both trade knowladge and code testing, the person passing the testing and proving their experience, has shown he has mastered at least the basic skills needed, but it does not always make them a good electrician.

Over the years, I have found the ones that complain about licensing, are usually those that don't feel they can pass the testing or meet the min hours needed. They can be good electricians out there that are good or even great in certian areas only, but they will not meet some state or local requirements, then it is time for them to bone up on the weak areas and apply for the license.

 

[jmsbrush]

Well presented, however, some states the licensing is no more then a permit, and payment
In the states that have proven hours and both trade knowladge and code testing, the person passing the testing and proving their experience, has shown he has mastered at least the basic skills needed, but it does not always make them a good electrician.

Over the years, I have found the ones that complain about licensing, are usually those that don't feel they can pass the testing or meet the min hours needed. They can be good electricians out there that are good or even great in certian areas only, but they will not meet some state or local requirements, then it is time for them to bone up on the weak areas and apply for the license.

I agree with that, Good points:wink:

 

[khixxx]

Jared, Live and learn. I once put in a light that I thought wasn't level and could be a little bit better. The HO told me it's great, it's great blabllablblaaba he was 100% happy (I know this is different than you) However it really bothered me the rest of the day and some more for the next days. I just thought I could do better. I then went on a service call and the HO just bought the wrong breaker, I told him to take it back and what kind to get, and if he needed me to come back I would put it in. I didn't charge anything. I slept good that night. The next week that guy sent me a thank you letter with my service charge check of $70. My answer is do what ever makes you sleep good at night. Sometimes you can't please yourself or others just keep moving forward don't let it get to you to much. . Money isn't everything. People go into business to be free. What good will it do if you can't sleep, Or if it bothers you. maybe this is a good step on what the business will be like. Best of luck.

As far as licensing it's just a bunch of crap. I have a WV electrical masters license, IBEW member, Yet I am told i'm not qualified to work for journeyman wages in TX without a Journeymans card. Good in theory, but it's just another tax on the uneducated, and I pay it

 

[bjp_ne_elec]

Here's an old story that exemplifies this post:

The next day, FedEx shows up with a package. Inside is the corrected invoice. It read "Turn a Franzenhimmel Nut one-half turn clockwise... $5. Knowing which Franzenhimmel Nut to turn.... $495."

Beautifully said! Like to see the Manager's face when he read it. I get the same kind of thinking when performing service work sometimes. Actually got asked if I got more on weekends, as they were concerned they might be paying more. In one scenario I had to kill a circuit, but was concerned it might affect the server room. The lead IT guy swore that the circuit would not impact the servers - everything is on UPS. I asked again, are you sure you don't want me to do this tomorrow (Saturday) when only a few of you are in? No, my guy is convince it won't effect anything. Turn off the breaker and within five minutes there is literally ten people walking towards the IT guys office. The main router for all the internal LAN connections was powered by this circuit.

You know how much money he saved by not letting me do this on a Saturday, when it would have cost him an extra $50?

 

[roger]

Well presented, however, some states the licensing is no more then a permit, and payment

I agree

In the states that have proven hours and both trade knowladge and code testing, the person passing the testing and proving their experience, has shown he has mastered at least the basic skills needed, but it does not always make them a good electrician.

I agree with that as well.

Over the years, I have found the ones that complain about licensing, are usually those that don't feel they can pass the testing or meet the min hours needed.

I really agree with that.

They can be good electricians out there that are good or even great in certian areas only, but they will not meet some state or local requirements, then it is time for them to bone up on the weak areas and apply for the license.

And with that I should have just said I agree with your whole post :smile:

Roger

 

[iwire]

If your not agianst it Bob then why have it at all?

IMO it only proves a certain level of commitment.

It certainly does not prove I am anything more than legally qualified. I am sure you have met some licensed electricians that you would not want wiring your own home.