When to speak up

[sparky456]

Recently I started working on a job with an established foreman with the company I work for. I pointed out some code violations that were about to transpire, thanks to a rash of change orders and already questionably designed prints.

The foreman sought my opinion, and then once I gave it, we discussed the issue. Ultimately, he ordered the code violations to be installed, and I guess he decided they were not serious enough to warrant serious attention. The inspector showed up after lunchtime one day, and appeared to me to be either high or drunk, but I didn't smell anything on him. The foreman said he was just goofy.

At any rate, the incompetent inspector did not notice the code violations, and the inspection passed. It was not my job, so I did not speak up. Should I have pointed out to the inspector the violation? Should I have lobbied the foreman more? Gone to his boss? What would you do, or have you done in the past?

 

[brennan]

hmm great moral ethical question.

 

[EBFD6]

I would try to discuss some more with the foreman, and possibly get the boss involved depending on the severity of the violations. I would never even consider selling out a co-worker to the inspector.

JMHO!

 

[peter d]

I would never even consider selling out a co-worker to the inspector.

What if the problem constituted a real threat to life and property? There is not a black and white answer to when you should raise your voice and when you shouldn't. IMO of course. To me it comes down to just how dangerous and problematic these violations are.

 

[iwire]

It is IMO an imposable question to answer without having been there in person.

 

[EBFD6]

What if the problem constituted a real threat to life and property? There is not a black and white answer to when you should raise your voice and when you shouldn't. IMO of course. To me it comes down to just how dangerous and problematic these violations are.

I hear what you are saying, however I would rather deal with it within the company (ie.. project manager, company president, owner) instead of throwing a co-worker under the bus with an inspector.

That is just my first thought but, as iwire has said, it is not possible to say for sure without knowing the facts and being involved.

 

[peter d]

I hear what you are saying, however I would rather deal with it within the company (ie.. project manager, company president, owner) instead of throwing a co-worker under the bus with an inspector.

That I certainly agree with.

 

[growler]

The foreman sought my opinion, and then once I gave it, we discussed the issue. Ultimately, he ordered the code violations to be installed, and I guess he decided they were not serious enough to warrant serious attention.

Well, is it something serious or is it something minor that no one is ever going to care about? Give us an idea of what this code violation is?

If it was something that I thought was dangerous I wouldn't install it no matter what the foreman wanted? I would go right to the boss or ever who's name is on the permit ( they may have an opinion ).

 

[Goroon]

?Business is Business?

?Business is Business?

You already spoke up.

I see a lot of things in my opinion that are not to code, past or present.
It is OK to Stir it up a Bit, BUT, nobody like a complainer.

I have found that the best thing to do is to use a three step approach.
1: Is it safe? Not just to me but in the opinion of those who are responsible for it.
How many time do you see #10 -4 SJOW with a 30 or 35 amp breaker-400.5 colum A and used as a Pendant feeder?

2: Go to your superior [forman] and let him or her assume responsibility.
That is normaly the chain of command and no body like having some one go over there head. The inspector is generaly going to go with whom ever is responsible for it, as long as it is not hidden.

3: Go over there heads if safety is involved and risk the outfall.
I have been fired over refusing to do instructed work once in 25 years. Two weeks later his replacement brought me back at overtime to complete the work per the new specifications.

 

[220/221]

Should I have pointed out to the inspector the violation?

I would NEVER point it out to the inspector.

If I considered it a serious violation I would go straight to the boss/owner with the formans knowledge.

If it was about marking tape on a #6 ground wire I wouldn't give it a second thought.

 

[mdshunk]

. Should I have pointed out to the inspector the violation?

Only if you like looking for another job.

 

[GUNNING]

Green journeyman syndrome - GJS

Green journeyman syndrome - GJS

Stick to your job definition. You pointed it out. Strap those tools back on and get back to work or go look for something else, someplace else.

 

[PCN]

Well, is it something serious or is it something minor that no one is ever going to care about? Give us an idea of what this code violation is?

If it was something that I thought was dangerous I wouldn't install it no matter what the foreman wanted? I would go right to the boss or ever who's name is on the permit ( they may have an opinion ).

Growler hit it right on the head. Although if you do go above your foreman and it backfires on you, you might find yourself getting all the crap work (or no work) the next time your on one of his jobs. I'd be very diplomatic, your treading into dangerous territory.

So what's the violation? That's the big matzo ball hangin out here.

 

[brantmacga]

i've been in the same position on multiple occasions. i called the boss into question once, and came to realize it did not matter; so from then on i just kept my mouth shut.

 

[iaov]

I try to go by an old- fashion concept,not often seen anymore called "common sense". I agree with iwre , not enough info. Not all code violations are equal.:smile:

 

[480sparky]

I try to go by an old- fashion concept,not often seen anymore called "common sense". I agree with iwre , not enough info. Not all code violations are equal.:smile:

I agree as well. Stuffing 101 in? worth of wire into a 100 in? box isn't the same as putting #14 wire on a 200 fuse.

 

[220/221]

Stuffing 101 in? worth of wire into a 100 in? box isn't the same as putting #14 wire on a 200 fuse.

Not to most people.

There are people that will argue with you though.

 

[480sparky]

Not to most people.

There are people that will argue with you though.

OK, I'll argue. Which on is more likely to cause a fire?:smile:

 

[quogueelectric]

The easy out is to tell yourself that only the licence holder is ultimately responsible for the install and all you can do is try to educate them as to the right installation. Tell them what they want to hear. Show them what they want to see and when they leave do the right thing so you can sleep at night. I need a letter from the pope to get some certain materials from some contractors.

 

[tonyou812]

Been there dont that. Ive seen guys do stuff that makes me really wonder how they pass inspections. I would bring it to thier attention, and sometimes the bosses attention and if he or the other guys dont care its out of my hands.