Which rules/laws in the construction industry....

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cschmid said:
LMAO man you got this down..feed the fish a scarce amount of food and it creates a feeding frenze...
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I guess it isn't really a feeding frenzy when the fish are fully aware that those throwing the food are having a laugh about it. No, the fish simply get a free meal out of it!
 
the goal is to get people to think outside of their world....plus, it beats talking about ground up/down or where you are allowed to use romex:D
 
No fish were harmed in the making of this thead. :D

I would have to comment that most people think that contractors make a lot of money for the same reason the contractors think that everyone doing side work is a hack.

Here in CA you only need 4 years of experiance to become a contractor. If you worked for someone for 20 does that mean you are still a hack if you do sidework?

Someone commented that you can't really answer this question, because many of us have never reached our threashold. Would I drive around and just shoot someone because they are different like a gang banger, NO!

If you hurt my family would I hunt you down like an animal, MAYBE, even PROBABLY.

So far luckly, I've never had to find out.
 
Now wait a minute there has been allot of fishing in this thread..Yet it gets back to the side work issue..it is not really about thinking out side the box and I explored it..I do think about the morality of allot of issues..

In fact I take stands on allot of stuff..I have some bents like everyone..But if we are fishing for the truth then let it slip away from the side work issue..It is easy to deal with side work..If you get caught doing side work you are immediately dismissed..

When you are younger side work seems okay as you grow older I don't hardly even like doing honey do lists..screw side work I have hard enough time with over time..

So if this is a morality thread then lets feed..Morality has lots of input because morality is nurture not nature..

So influences are a major issue and one of the driving issues is jealousy..Your employees are out there busting there balls and cant hardly make ends meet..Yet you cruise up in the hummer hang around bark some orders and boogy..when they get home they listen to there friends talk about how they seen you at the golf couse..they figure what the heck he has enough money to blow it foolishly and no help me make ends meet by giving me a raise..I will just have to wire this guys garage myself..

So if how I make decisions is what you are after..I have many influences in my life and one is I come from a family of five and we are very close..my dad had ten brothers and sisters and we are all really close..I have a good support group or at least one I enjoy being in..
 
thanks....good info...

but it's not just about side work....it's about every instance in the day, when you declare right from wrong in your own mind...look at the other examples i've given...


there really is no answer, at least no answer that could be typed here...but every situation at every point in every day has a defining moment where you answer to yourself for that situation...do you think about it? or do you just do whatever without any thought of the reprecussions?

like I said, morality has a part in it, but it's not all about morality...
 
satcom said:
For many small shops those one outlet, and hang a fixture jobs, are the bread and butter work they do, and most of the time can make the difference of having a pay week or not, these are the very guys that the illegal side guys cut their neck,
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If one outlet, ceiling fan, replace switch is having that much of a negative impact on a shop - then that shop is already on the cusp of bankruptcy and operating in a saturated market.

Bottomfeeders are accustomed to starving when there's no leftovers.

and in the process don't understand that the one outlet they install can be the one that kills or destroies someones home, or business it does not matter the size of the job, as to the risk taken, those little side jobs can kill and destroy just as easy as a big job.
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Now your equating sidework with hack work. Will any of your examples ever have clear parameters, or will they just fluidly evolve into what if's as they're addressed?

Who posted that pic of a residential panel with everything exposed and all the NM entering w/o the benefit of locknuts, or connectors? Did THAT house burn down?

Production residential contractors would stab every device if they could. Even 30a dryer receptacles. Some would refuse to stab 20a SA circuits, understanding that a 2400 watt load at the last receptacle was a little too precarious for their restful nights sleep - but it took a UL change to make EVERY contractor comply with common sense over speed and profits.

So get off your high horse about work being done off the cuff is automatically unsafe.

Ever notice unlicensed drivers are the SAFEST drivers on the road? Ask any cop - the ones doing the speed limit, no more no less, are either drunk, high, or unlicensed.

As you said you don't do side jobs, but there are some out there that do, the licensed ones where states allow it can do all the side work they can stand, the problem comes in states where there are license rules, and they are just not followed, this is where the problems start, when someone decides the laws don't apply to them.
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That's not where the problems start.
 
tmbrk said:
Why has this misconception become so prevalent? We are not all huge corporations building power plants and hydro-electric dams across the country.

Some of us are just small shops trying to make a decent living.
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The concept behind the issue is the same, scale has nothing to do with it.
 
emahler said:
the goal is to get people to think outside of their world....plus, it beats talking about ground up/down or where you are allowed to use romex:D
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My hat's off to you for pointing this out. I'm AMAZED at how many so-called contractors come here trying to figure out if they can wire Carnegie Hall including gas pump with NM. Always looking for a loophole, always looking to do the cheapest job possible.

Ever notice NOBODY comes here trying to figure out the BEST way possible? So please, your altruistic crusade for justice needs a little perspective... is this about right & wrong, or money?
 
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emahler said:
we're not talking about legislating morality....we are talking about why some guys feel justified in doing side work illegally and taking food off a legal contractors table, but would call the labor board on their boss if he shorted them 15 mins in their weekly check?
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The long &s short of it is this - the guy doing sidework is not going to get caught. The boss shaving the payroll will.

we're talking about why some guy thinks he can not follow the prevailing wage laws, but let a customer not pay him....

so while morality comes into play, we are talking about when and why do you decide that the existing legislation doesn't apply to you?
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Ever drive by a "daylaborer hiring site?"
 
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