who owns the tools you use

[brian john]

I'll buy any tool they want or need BUT, that tool had better be taken care of, if broken repaired or replaced. My employees know my feeling on tools with any problems repair replace no questions no hassles FIX IT OR BUY NEW. This weekend I borrowed a drill from one of my lead techs....Switch is intermittent, drove me batty. Apprentice tells me it has been that way a year.


Blood pressure rising....................I seldom get upset with them but this really drives me over the top...Or and dead batteries, I installed 1,200 watt inverters on all trucks.

3 mechanic standing waiting for 3 sawzall batteries to charge to cut one 2" EMT. Hoping I would not arrive before the EMT was cut..No one had a hack saw..(EXCEPT ME).

 

[JohnJ0906]

As the owner and a former employee I see both sides of this. I once had a guy working for me who brought every tool under the sun with him and he did it because he liked his tools. they made him more productive but also made his job easier. That was the attitude I had when I was working for some one. If I am more productive than other guys I get paid more, If I use tools I like I enjoy the job more.

That is how I feel. I certainly bring more than I am required to, but I am making my job easier (good for John) and being more productive (good for company). I am also the top paid guy at my company - part of the reason is that, unlike a lot of other, I don't call the shop saying "I can't finish this job because I don't have xxxx"
Just a personal choice. I'd rather use a cordless sawzall (optional) than a hacksaw (required).

 

[bikeindy]

That is how I feel. I certainly bring more than I am required to, but I am making my job easier (good for John) and being more productive (good for company). I am also the top paid guy at my company - part of the reason is that, unlike a lot of other, I don't call the shop saying "I can't finish this job because I don't have xxxx"
Just a personal choice. I'd rather use a cordless sawzall (optional) than a hacksaw (required).

My former employer whom I am still good friends and he helps me with some things from time to time. Allowed his guys to buy any tool they wanted on his accounts for personal use and he deducted a certain amount each week from our pay to pay them back. It was a great way to get the tools you wanted and not just for work reasons I bought all kinds of tools. Most of which made me more productive and increased my wage $5.25 per hour in a year.

 

[RHJohnson]

There isn't a good solution to who should furnish tools. It's not politically correct, but a lot of electricians? / construction hands are really from the bottom of the barrell. I have had so many of my tools, both hand and power, stolen from my shop and from job sites that at times I thought I'd go so crazy I'd really hurt someone. Some of these were real speciality tools - hard to get or even find. Even some electricians didn't know what some of them were for. I've had meters hooked up to live circuits, running tests where I or someone would return at intervals to record what is occurring, and made a check 10 minutes after the electricians shift ended and find those test instruments missing "stolen" - remember they were on live circuits, usually in rooms only accessible to electricians.
Earlier in my career when I had as many as 50 employees I made it a point to only have what I considered "the cream of the crop". If I new guy could not, or would not live up to expectations he was history. And if I got a call from his new prospective employer I would not hold back. This was the norm in the area where I was - If a new guy applied to me I would phone his references, and if they were local I knew I'd hear the unvarnished truth.
I never felt an employee should need to furnish more than the basic hand tools. But he should be responsible for all tools I furnished. If they were broken or stolen, or lost I wanted to know why and how. If they couldn't take care of tools entrusted to them, I could not require them to replace those tools, but those electricians? did not need to be my problem anymore.
A good attitude, quality work, presentable to clients, and no whining - which is a real morale problem. But some people always feel life is unfair - and there is nothing you can do which will change their mind.

 

[brian john]

and no whining

I'll put up with a lot, but the whining DRIVES me bonkers, you are an adult you find a parking space, a supply house with 6/32" screws, get along with the apprentice I am sorry is is a republican or democrat or vegetarian or big game hunter. I know it is 2:30 and you have a 30 mile drive home, but a hospital just lost ALL POWER and the generator won't start and I am 1-1/2 hours away.

OK so take care of your tools, charge the batteries and quit crying.

 

[petersonra]

When I started in the trade you owned the tools you carried on your tool belt. Now it seems that EC's want you to own your own power tools. One EC in the neighborhood wants his guys to own their own 4" ko punch.

What's the norm?

thanks

I think it is widely variable from contractor to contractor, especially with non-union shops. Union shops tend to have this laid out in the contract in some way, and it tends to be pretty minimalist.

OTOH, some guys like to buy tools.

IMO, I think every electrician should own the basic handtools, and a good meter (with current reading). If it doesn't fit in their tool pouch, the employer probably should supply it.

 

[petersonra]

The point is, the contractor cannot require you to have a no-dog. If he insists you use one, he must supply it. If he supplys it, there's no problem with you keeping it in your tool bag if that's their policy.

what is a no-dog?

 

[emahler]

what is a no-dog?

a level to keep a guy from generating a bone yard of misbent conduit...so, you can't require him to actually be competent...and if you require him to have a $25 tool to help him do the job he's supposed to be competent at...you have to supply it...might as well bend the conduit for him and send him home

 

[480sparky]

what is a no-dog?

No-Dog level.

 

[Ed Carr]

480 first time I've seen this thing.
Thanks for the link-Ed

 

[Tiger Electrical]

I bought a no-dog for fun but I never use it. If you can't bend conduit by eye without a level get some glasses and practice another half hour. I don't have employees, but after hearing enough stories about disappearing tools I'd recommend that the employee either supply the cordless tools, or if supplied by the employer...sign for them and be financially responsible for them.

Dave

 

[mdshunk]

If you can't bend conduit by eye without a level get some glasses and practice another half hour.

That sounds cool, until you're bending on gravel, earth, or some other uneven wacky floor. Can a guy bend without an aid like a no-dog? Certainly, but sometimes it's easier to use one. I have one, but I still reach for a regular inclinometer many times if the floor is uneven, since I can zero it to the unlevel conditions.

 

[Minuteman]

No-dogs are a MUST for a Chicago or any type power bender.

 

[RHJohnson]

We bent lot's of pipe with a triple nickle, before that gimmick (No-dog). It's like anything else, the more you do a job the better you get, and if you try real hard to do good work it does come easy after a while. I saw many different electricians doing good pipe work by eye-ball. But some guy's never could get it, and I don't think a No-dog would have helped them.

 

[brian john]

If you can't bend conduit by eye without a level get some glasses and practice another half hour.

Then there are guys that maybe install 100' (if that) a year. Some electricians have other fish to fry.

 

[Rewire]

I bought a no-dog for fun but I never use it. If you can't bend conduit by eye without a level get some glasses and practice another half hour. I don't have employees, but after hearing enough stories about disappearing tools I'd recommend that the employee either supply the cordless tools, or if supplied by the employer...sign for them and be financially responsible for them.

Dave

Maybe for 1/2 or 3/4 but you get into the larger emt a nodog is a must have tool six runs of 4 in with every bend an exact match is a beautiful thing.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

...

There were probably a couple other things that I always wanted to use of "mine", but I can't remember right now.

Let me guess... a megger? :grin:

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

I bought a no-dog for fun but I never use it. If you can't bend conduit by eye without a level get some glasses and practice another half hour. I don't have employees, but after hearing enough stories about disappearing tools I'd recommend that the employee either supply the cordless tools, or if supplied by the employer...sign for them and be financially responsible for them.

Dave

If you aren't capable of running a simple contracting business without breaking labor laws, you oughta face the truth and pack it in.

An employee could crash your truck, tip over a $12,000 photocopier, bust a water main in a library and blow up a brand new service, you can't do a thing about it AND you still have to pay the man.

 

[bikeindy]

If you aren't capable of running a simple contracting business without breaking labor laws, you oughta face the truth and pack it in.

An employee could crash your truck, tip over a $12,000 photocopier, bust a water main in a library and blow up a brand new service, you can't do a thing about it AND you still have to pay the man.

Where are you from? I can fire a guy for looking left only once before turning if I want to in Indiana. I don't need a reason to fire a guy. I could do it for fun. Thats not how I operate but I think you get my drift. I am not breaking a labor law by making an employee responsible for tools under his control, If he is working for me and I think he was negligent in his job and he caused property damage he is gone baby gone.

 

[emahler]

Where are you from? I can fire a guy for looking left only once before turning if I want to in Indiana. I don't need a reason to fire a guy. I could do it for fun. Thats not how I operate but I think you get my drift. I am not breaking a labor law by making an employee responsible for tools under his control, If he is working for me and I think he was negligent in his job and he caused property damage he is gone baby gone.

no you can't....you owe your employees a living....it's your responsibility to make sure they are taken care of...and to make sure you provide them everything they need to live.....and if you don't it means you are an incompetent business man...in fact, you should have bidets, instead of porta johns on site..it's your responsibility as an employer to make sure the employees who are unqualified to wipe themselves don't get chafed...i mean c'mon...