Why 277 volt lighting

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mbrooke

mbrooke

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Why is lighting 277 volts and not 480 volts? Why do manufacturers make us pull a neutral? Seems we only have that option with HID. Irony is Mercury vapor high bays were often 480 volts.
 
mikeames

mikeames

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Teacher - Master Electrician - 2017 NEC
Less pratical???? Thinking of 2 spaces in a panel vs 1. For smaller areas the amount of lights that could be put on 1 480v circuit is not necessary, and so an extra space wasted????

I am just making it up, guessing. Why not 240v lights in residential?
 
mbrooke

mbrooke

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mikeames said:
Less pratical???? Thinking of 2 spaces in a panel vs 1. For smaller areas the amount of lights that could be put on 1 480v circuit is not necessary, and so an extra space wasted????

I am just making it up, guessing. Why not 240v lights in residential?
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In residential you could use screw shells as an excuse.

But in commercial tomb stones are different and I don't see a HO touching a mogul high bay socket.
 
kwired

kwired

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NE Nebraska
differences in design requirements for a 277 volt switch vs a 480 volt switch? plus it is single pole vs multipole, and associated price differences?

There probably was at one time 277 volt mogul based incandescent lamps. I know I have seen 277 volt quartz double ended lamps.
 
kwired

kwired

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What about 347/600 volt systems? Though not so common in the US. Don't know if there is common 347 volt loads that are typically supplied in these systems. Guessing there at least is some 347 volt loads though.
zbang said:
I was always told "it's below 300 volts" (and because it's a single pole breaker).
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H

Hv&Lv

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Engineer/Technician
mbrooke said:
Why is lighting 277 volts and not 480 volts? Why do manufacturers make us pull a neutral? Seems we only have that option with HID. Irony is Mercury vapor high bays were often 480 volts.
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Who says it isn’t?
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H

hillbilly1

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Not until recently did they start making 480 volt drivers. A lot of manufactures would use multi volt ballasts using the auto transformer taps to power the driver at a lower voltage.
 
N

norcal

Senior Member
kwired said:
What about 347/600 volt systems? Though not so common in the US. Don't know if there is common 347 volt loads that are typically supplied in these systems. Guessing there at least is some 347 volt loads though.
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347V lighting is used in Canada.
 
mbrooke

mbrooke

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mbrooke

mbrooke

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kwired said:
differences in design requirements for a 277 volt switch vs a 480 volt switch? plus it is single pole vs multipole, and associated price differences?

There probably was at one time 277 volt mogul based incandescent lamps. I know I have seen 277 volt quartz double ended lamps.
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They still make 277 volt lamps in normal base. I use them where the 240 volt ones burn out to fast.

https://imgur.com/a/2yQZJgl

https://imgur.com/E0KK0ob


I can see 277 volt lamps being more durable, long life and more efficient at 277 volts but florescent and HID would not make a difference I'd think. Remember that a 1000 mercury vapor bulb could run on a 480 volt reactor ballast.
 
H

hillbilly1

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North Georgia mountains
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mbrooke said:
3 wires vs 4 wires. Lose a noodle and you smoke 100 ballasts. Line to neutral loads are just dumb, dangerous, and pointless.
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My son is on a new construction job where the temps left a bunch of nuetrals loose, smoked quite a few drivers. If they had been 120 volt, no magic smoke would have been let out because of the 120/277 volt auto selecting. Unfortunately, 277 volt circuit, mwbc.
 
mbrooke

mbrooke

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hillbilly1 said:
My son is on a new construction job where the temps left a bunch of nuetrals loose, smoked quite a few drivers. If they had been 120 volt, no magic smoke would have been let out because of the 120/277 volt auto selecting. Unfortunately, 277 volt circuit, mwbc.
Click to expand...


Yup, one the reasons why using the system's center point for load is dangerous.
 
StarCat

StarCat

Industrial Engineering Tech
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Moab, UT USA
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Imdustrial Engineering Technician - HVACR Electrical and Mechanical Systems
mbrooke said:
3 wires vs 4 wires. Lose a noodle and you smoke 100 ballasts. Line to neutral loads are just dumb, dangerous, and pointless.
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The Fact that you are raising questions about convention is good. I suggest looking into anything by Eric Dollard you can find.
There is gold in there.
What I will tell you that that besides the constant degradation in Engineered Systems due to everything being rooted in a debt based monetary system being bad, the Attempt to Engineer around common sense and proper education FOR PROFIT is a colossal mistake and can only end badly.
There is a major lot of time being wasted which people seem to think is normal, and we are getting more and more things that either work very badly or not at all. Its a form of collective insanity that is playing out with all kinds of people who should know better turning a blind eye to the entire affair.....


Star
 
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