Why does 277/480 cost so much?

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mbrooke

mbrooke

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Why do 277/480 volt panels and breakers cost so much? Why not list 120/240 volt 22kaic breakers as 10kaic at 277 volts and use standard 120/208 panelboard guts and enclosures? Just what is so special with 480 volt equipment?
 
I would think Larry's answer is still valid. A 10k fault at 277 has different characteristics than a 10k fault at 120.
 
drcampbell said:
Mostly marketing.

Why does a single-pole breaker cost $10, a double-pole breaker cost $20 and a triple-pole breaker cost $60, all for the same box?
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3 phase breakers are rated 240 volts instead of 120/240, so in theory they are built to interrupt more.
 
My micro-economics instructor would say the general answer to all such questions is "the seller sets the price to maximize income."

Price x units sold = gross sales. The higher the price, the less units will sell. So there is a sweet spot that maximizes gross sales. This is effected by what the competitors are doing. If the small number of competitors who are capable of manufacturing circuit breakers all either collude (price fix) or independently observe each other (like airlines do) and nobody breaks ranks, they can keep prices elevated until a new cheaper competitor arrives on the scene or a cheaper alternative is found. In the mean time all you can do is pay what they are charging.
 
1. The product of voltage and interrupting current is NOT a constant for a given contact geometry even though they may have similar incident energy. You cannot make a 100V switch into a 10,000V switch just by limiting the current. :)
2. The production cost and sales price may be higher for lower quantity production even without the "whatever the traffic will bear" factor.

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electrofelon said:
I don't think a 22kaic 120 breaker would rate anywhere near 10k at 277 (sorry if that wasn't what you were proposing). Look at a Siemens BQD for example. Those are their "regular" 277/480 breakers. 14k at 277, 65k at 240.
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Correct- however 22 kaic THQL breakers are rated 9 kaic at 240 volts, and would probably be 9-7 kaic at 277 volts. Similarly the way 10kaic breakers are rated 5ka at 240 volts.



See page 3:


http://apps.geindustrial.com/publib...NR=Application and Technical|GEZ-7927|generic






GE_breaker_label.jpg
 
GoldDigger said:
1. The product of voltage and interrupting current is NOT a constant for a given contact geometry even though they may have similar incident energy. You cannot make a 100V switch into a 10,000V switch just by limiting the current. :)
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I'll take that as a possible factor. The leap from 240 to 277 isn't all that high- though it would be unfair to give you the benefit of the doubt.


2. The production cost and sales price may be higher for lower quantity production even without the "whatever the traffic will bear" factor.

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Sure. But why not over come the economic hurdle that by listing a 240 volt panel board for 480 volts grounded wye? Even if the breakers cost more in the end to fulfill #1, the cost of the can, guts and cover is much cheaper.
 
mbrooke said:
Why not list 120/240 volt 22kaic breakers as 10kaic at 277 volts and use standard 120/208 panelboard guts and enclosures? Just what is so special with 480 volt equipment?
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The difference is not simply 240V to 277V. For 1 pole breakers it is really 120V L-G versus 277V L-G.
 
mbrooke said:
Why do 277/480 volt panels and breakers cost so much? Why not list 120/240 volt 22kaic breakers as 10kaic at 277 volts and use standard 120/208 panelboard guts and enclosures? Just what is so special with 480 volt equipment?
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LarryFine said:
Bigger contact gaps and faster contact opening? :?
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mbrooke said:
So why does a 277 volt 10kaic cost more then a 120 volt 22kaic?
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I would think that a good deal of the price for 480V equipment is to recover the cost of development and manufacturing. If you manufacture a product and only sell a million units then the cost to develop and manufacture the product will have a much higher pr unit cost than if you sell a 100 million of said product.

There are a lot more 120V breakers and panels sold.
 
growler said:
I would think that a good deal of the price for 480V equipment is to recover the cost of development and manufacturing. If you manufacture a product and only sell a million units then the cost to develop and manufacture the product will have a much higher pr unit cost than if you sell a 100 million of said product.

There are a lot more 120V breakers and panels sold.
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Correct- so why not give people the option to use more economical equipment where it will safely fit? Why force people to use a higher priced product just so that product can be a bit cheaper over all?
 
Part of the answer is there is more material (copper and plastic) in a 277 volt rated breaker, the panels are larger (again, more materials). A 120 ground fault will extingish, as not enough energy, but a 277 ground fault has far more energy and will keep arcing. 277 requires a way to stop the arc when the breaker is opened, so again more expensive.
A part of it may be economy of scale, I suspect way more 120 volt gear is sold than 277
 
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