Why ECs STILL shouldn't do voice and data wiring.

[Bob Walker]

"Without specs or plans, there are no requirements."
So the blueprints have to tell him to use the black wire for hot, the white wire for neutral?

 

[roger]

"Without specs or plans, there are no requirements."
So the blueprints have to tell him to use the black wire for hot, the white wire for neutral?

If as a designer that is what you want used on your project you should include that in the contract documents or you may end up with numerous other colors for hots and Gray as the neutral.

As an aside, you may have a problem with this if there are different voltage systems in the project.

Roger

 

[iwire]

"Without specs or plans, there are no requirements."


So the blueprints have to tell him to use the black wire for hot, the white wire for neutral?

The plans might tell me what color to use for the 'hot', but in general it is up to the installer. Believe me when I tell you black only gets used for the 'hot' in about 1/6th of the 'hots' I run.

Typically hots on the jobs I work will be Black, Red, Blue, Brown, Orange and Yellow but might be any color other than gray, white or green.

As far as the Neutral the NEC tell me what two colors are allowed....gray or white.

But the NEC is more than just a standard, in many places it is adopted into law.

 

[iwire]

One more thing I should point out, this forum is aimed at electrical contractors, to come here and post that electrical contractors should not do a particular kind of electric work is at best 'odd'.

 

[celtic]

"Without specs or plans, there are no requirements."
So the blueprints have to tell him to use the black wire for hot, the white wire for neutral?

If someone wants to spend the money specing that all hot's MUST be black - so be it.

If they don't want to spend the money dictating what color, I'll use whatever I have available.

If they don't "like" my colors - they have 2 choices:
- tell me what color you "prefer" and pay me to make it so
- go sit in the corner and cry/pout about it

 

[emahler]

One more thing I should point out, this forum is aimed at electrical contractors, to come here and post that electrical contractors should not do a particular kind of electric work is at best 'odd'.

i'd like to make a motion that some EC's not install electrical items, let alone data....we've all seen the pictures.....

 

[celtic]

i'd like to make a motion that some EC's not install electrical items

LOL
So true.

 

[iwire]

i'd like to make a motion that some EC's not install electrical items,

I can get behind that. :smile:

 

[celtic]

I can get behind that. :smile:

I think you already have:
If it weren't for electricity we'd all be watching television by candlelight.

 

[iwire]

I think you already have:
If it weren't for electricity we'd all be watching television by candlelight.

:grin:


I don't know nothin', I just hook up the white to the silver and black to the brass, cut off the bare and put it in the scrap collection....anything beyond that is beyond me....I am just an electricalitian.

 

[JohnJ0906]

cut off the bare and put it in the scrap collection....

When did you move to Maryland?

I've been coming behind some of your work.

 

[peter d]

Darn it, now I'm going to have to call a sub next time I need to daisy chain some 22/4 quad phone wire.

 

[brantmacga]

i wired a 1300 sq. ft. POS spec house today. normally, i home run all my phones to the outside. but not today. i was thinking about the previous thread on this and decided i was going to daisy chain all 8 phone jacks. once its finished and someone moves in, i'm going back to verify that all of them work. if they do, i'm going to call you guys that said EC's shouldn't be doing this kind of work and scream, "can you hear me now, xxxx". i'm dead serious (about the daisy chaining at least).

 

[emahler]

i wired a 1300 sq. ft. POS spec house today. normally, i home run all my phones to the outside. but not today. i was thinking about the previous thread on this and decided i was going to daisy chain all 8 phone jacks. once its finished and someone moves in, i'm going back to verify that all of them work. if they do, i'm going to call you guys that said EC's shouldn't be doing this kind of work and scream, "can you hear me now, xxx!". i'm dead serious (about the daisy chaining at least).

they'll work, but only because you probably soldered the jacks...

seriously, what if they want to install a phone system with extensions? might not happen, but it's not impossible.

 

[stickboy1375]

seriously, what if they want to install a phone system with extensions? might not happen, but it's not impossible.

ARE you serious? and if they did so what? the jacks are probably not in the correct/future location anyhow...

 

[The phone man]

Well if they want to install a phone system it will become a job for us phone guys if the job was daisy chained from the EC that did the build out. I do not mean to sound rude but if I will lose food off of my table because of a EC awesome more power to you but please do the job correctly. I have been reading the previous post and it sounds like a turf was to me and if we would all just come together and realize that we all need to work together and meet some where in the middle. It does no good to cry and complain about each other I could care less who does the build out as long as when I go and install my phone system i am not going behind someone else and fixing there mistakes. It is nice when a job comes together and all is well that ends well. I really hope I did not offend anyone but the bickering back and forth between phone guys and EC's is in my opinion just aload od BS. Can't we all just get along. There has been numerious times I have help the Ec run there wire and common sense prevailed.

That is just my 2 cents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jacobsond]

I agree with the phoneman. The act of running the wire is not the hard part. The act of running the correct wire and the correct wireing practice is the key.The name calling (trained monkey) is uncalled for and of no help on this board(or any other board) I visit this board because I want to learn about the trade whether lo volt or high volt. The pissing match this post has become is unsettling. The egos of the GC,EC,and LV are to high. I as a LV am not better or all knowing than the EC,But the EC is not either. We are in a field that requires us to work together. In the OP there was a failure to communicate between ALL parties and now someone needs to be "blamed" was the attitude as far as I could tell.Plenty of blame to go around guys line up and get your share.

 

[Mr. Bill]

"Without specs or plans, there are no requirements."

And Contractors complain about why the spec book is so large. I have yet to even find a contractor who really reads the specs when they are provided.

 

[dab]

how about the thought of providing conduits for the phoneman so that he can pull whatever he so desires. this is the norm on commercial jobs and what i like to leave on my resi jobs. cat 3 or 5 or 5e or whatever seems to change so quickly.

 

[brantmacga]

but please do the job correctly.

daisy chaining is not incorrect. it works. nothing says i have to pull home runs. i have always pulled home runs to the demarc on phones; this house was the first time i daisy chained them. they will work.

I do not mean to sound rude but if I will lose food off of my table because of a EC

how can this be taking food off your table? it created work for you. which you charge for and should make more money because of the extra effort. geez how bout a thank you. seriously. i don't do mine this way, but i don't knock guys who do. i charge a reasonable amount for running the phones to the outside and no one has complained about paying it yet. but if a guy has to come up w/ a way to shave a couple hundred bucks off his price, then daisy chaining might be his best option. and here's something that may be off topic i don't know, iwire will decide that for me (grin), but i just finished a take-off on a large mediterranian lake house about 10 minutes ago that will have 1 (yes ONE) phone jack. its custom, and the HO wants to use cordless phones. yes i tried to sell them more, even a tried a sch. 2 system since its an upscale home, but they're set on only one jack. now, install a phone system on that!