Why is residential wiring known as single phase?

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K8MHZ

K8MHZ

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Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
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pfalcon said:
You've contributed about 25 just counting them haven't you? About 4%?
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Well, I didn't count them, but I officially threw in the towel about a week ago. Before that, my posts were honest attempts to offer an explanation. Once I discovered my posts were exercises in futility, I realized that Iwire was correct and alluded to that.

It looks like the OP threw in the towel about 9 days ago.

Do you think I should have contributed more, or less than what I did?
 
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rbalex

rbalex

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rattus said:
Well Bob, how would you answer the original question?
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Oh ? I donno; try Post #539 where I specifically said I answered it and later extended in Posts #566 and 568 to two-phase and three-phase.

Loads do not define phase; if anything they are defined by phase.

For ?Nice, simple, pragmatic?? Bob?s answer in Post # 2 is just as good.
 
pfalcon

pfalcon

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Location
Indiana
rbalex said:
...irrelevant. It still doesn't answer the OP's question. Phase is not defiined by the type of load either.
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Oh, I agree. But the correct answer to the OP has been given numerous times.

Single-phase residential is called that because there's only one single phase existing between A & B on the secondary coil.

It's the proof of that everyone really keeps arguing about. Since it can be used in a versatile manner many peeps are arguing that it therefore conforms to how they used it rather than what it is. IMHO, I don't think Besoeker really cares what it really is, I think all he cares about is how he can use it. And frankly, there are a lot of uses for it that take advantage of using opposed wiring directions off the coil.
 
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ronaldrc

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Rattus

Oppose polarity and out of phase might be the same math wise but in
the real world if they where equivelent you could connect the two secondary
windings in additive or subtractive and the voltage would remain the same.

What I said above really didn't make any sense after I read it,just like everything
else being posted so far.
 
Rick Christopherson

Rick Christopherson

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ronaldrc said:
Rattus

Oppose polarity and out of phase might be the same math wise but in
the real world if they where equivelent you could connect the two secondary
windings in additive or subtractive and the voltage would remain the same.

What I said above really didn't make any sense after I read it,just like everything
else being posted so far.
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You're right. It didn't really make any sense, but you are nevertheless on the right track. :D

This is the reason why I have previously brought up the concept of a noise artifact on the sine wave. If the two signals were truly out of phase, this noise artifact would also appear out of phase. Instead, a noise artifact would show that the two signals are in fact inversions, not phase shifts. That's the difference between "appears" versus "are" out of phase.
 
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pfalcon

pfalcon

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Location
Indiana
K8MHZ said:
Well, I didn't count them, but I officially threw in the towel about a week ago. Before that, my posts were honest attempts to offer an explanation. Once I discovered my posts were exercises in futility, I realized that Iwire was correct and alluded to that.
It looks like the OP threw in the towel about 9 days ago.
Do you think I should have contributed more, or less than what I did?
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No, whatever you felt appropriate for contribution is good. Just an observation. :) But I'm surprised you didn't jump in to claim #600 :)

rbalex said:
Oh ? I donno; try Post #539 where I specifically said I answered it and later extended in Posts #566 and 568 to two-phase and three-phase.
Loads do not define phase; if anything they are defined by phase.
For ?Nice, simple, pragmatic?? Bob?s answer in Post # 2 is just as good.
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Yes (539), and Yes (566), and Yes (568), and Yes (to defined by), and Yes (as good). There are lots of good ways to express it.
 
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ronaldrc

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Location
Tennessee
Rick Christopherson said:
You're right. It didn't really make any sense, but you are nevertheless on the right track. :D

This is the reason why I have previously brought up the concept of a noise artifact on the sine wave. If the two signals were truly out of phase, this noise artifact would also appear out of phase. Instead, a noise artifact would show that the two signals are in fact inversions, not phase shifts. That's the difference between "appears" versus "are" out of phase.
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Thanks I'm glad I'm at least on the right track, but does this track go any where just for the everyday
Electrician?
 
Rick Christopherson

Rick Christopherson

Senior Member
ronaldrc said:
Thanks I'm glad I'm at least on the right track, but does this track go any where just for the everyday Electrician?
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No. The "everyday electrician" doesn't need to know any of the information in this entire thread, including the OP's question. However, that doesn't mean that they don't want to, or would be worse for it either.
(That's actually a pet peeve of mine with the drive-by hecklers. They don't want to know, so they mock what they don't know. :slaphead:)
 
Johnmcca

Johnmcca

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Mid-Hudson Valley, NY
ronaldrc said:
Thanks I'm glad I'm at least on the right track, but does this track go any where just for the everyday
Electrician?
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As a practical matter no; but it did help in understanding the physics and math (which I got partially lost in) of the operation of transformers, as well as the literary and philosophy quotes.:)
 
pfalcon

pfalcon

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Location
Indiana
ronaldrc said:
Oppose polarity and out of phase might be the same math wise but ...
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Rick Christopherson said:
... a noise artifact would show that the two signals are in fact inversions, not phase shifts. That's the difference between "appears" versus "are" out of phase.
Click to expand...

And Rbalex did a great job with the math in his postings.

Two different architectures under ideal circumstances can easily resolve using the same mathematics. Two different architectures can display on an oscilloscope identically. Rick, myself, and others have pointed out that running the leads from left to right for one leg, and right to left for the other leg, is not correct. Rick challenged them to add noise to illustrate this. I've tried to get them to maintain a common reference frame. Rbalex has glazed their eyes with phase calculations. Jim has fended numerous misconceptions. All to no avail.
 
Rick Christopherson

Rick Christopherson

Senior Member
pfalcon said:
Rick, myself, and others have pointed out that running the leads from left to right for one leg, and right to left for the other leg, is not correct.
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No, No, No! You misunderstand my position. I have absolutely no problems with how someone wants to measure or analyze their system. That's a personal choice, and everyone has the right to do it as they see fit.

My contention is when either side makes a statement that is not universally true irrespective of their chosen analysis method. It may appear that I take the position of one side over the other, but that is only because the "phase shift" side has a long-standing habit of overstating their position. I only object when misleading statements are made.
 
R

ronaldrc

Senior Member
Location
Tennessee
Rick Christopherson said:
No. The "everyday electrician" doesn't need to know any of the information in this entire thread, including the OP's question. However, that doesn't mean that they don't want to, or would be worse for it either.
(That's actually a pet peeve of mine with the drive-by hecklers. They don't want to know, so they mock what they don't know. :slaphead:)
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Thats really going to hurt the Ego of all the want to be Electricians.

In other words they are being taught basic Electricity for nothing. That all it is basics.

It doesn't take all your fancy math to understand what we are talking about.

Even I know that

2+2=4
4+4=8

The sun shines all the time here
It rains pretty often
My soil in good

And my grass still doesn't grow

"See I even know about that boolean algebra stuff to. :)
 
R

ronaldrc

Senior Member
Location
Tennessee
pfalcon said:
And Rbalex did a great job with the math in his postings.

Two different architectures under ideal circumstances can easily resolve using the same mathematics. Two different architectures can display on an oscilloscope identically. Rick, myself, and others have pointed out that running the leads from left to right for one leg, and right to left for the other leg, is not correct. Rick challenged them to add noise to illustrate this. I've tried to get them to maintain a common reference frame. Rbalex has glazed their eyes with phase calculations. Jim has fended numerous misconceptions. All to no avail.
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I,ve said the same thing in the other post so have most the Electricians and a lot of others.

Its just as simple as you can not use the neutral as a common reference to show
that a split phase is not two Phase.

From what I seen on hear most but not all Engineers and electronic techs think it is
a phase shift instead of a voltage inversion.
 
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SOG38

Member
Location
USA
Why is residential wiring know as single phase

Why is residential wiring know as single phase

I was taught it is called "SPLIT PHASE" many decades ago.
The reason it is often called SINGLE PHASE because it is fed from the pole on a single phase transformer.:bye:
 
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