Why is this a violation?

[wwhitney]

The graphic wording indicates 6 feeders would be allowed if they were in the same piece of equipment does it not?

That's right. Perhaps I should have said "both," the violation is that there are both 2 feeders and 2 pieces of originating equipment.

1 feeder, and hence 1 piece of originating equipment, complies with the beginning of 225.30. 2 feeders, and 1 piece of originating equipment complies with 225.30(B). 2 feeders and 2 pieces of originating equipment does not comply with 225.30(B), so it violates 225.30 unless it falls under one of the other sections.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[jap]

That's right. Perhaps I should have said "both," the violation is that there are both 2 feeders and 2 pieces of originating equipment.

1 feeder, and hence 1 piece of originating equipment, complies with the beginning of 225.30. 2 feeders, and 1 piece of originating equipment complies with 225.30(B). 2 feeders and 2 pieces of originating equipment does not comply with 225.30(B), so it violates 225.30 unless it falls under one of the other sections.

Cheers, Wayne

Very well put.

Thanks


JAP>

 

[Another C10]

Service Conductors which can be run any distance outdoors.

And from my understanding those conductors would need to be 3ft deep and usually encased in a 3" concrete envelope sometimes with red slurry and foil caution tape running the length of the trench above the encasement reading electrical or utility. At least that was a spec I followed on a water treatment facility where the utility was brought 100's of feet into the property before hitting the switch gear.

 

[jap]

And from my understanding those conductors would need to be 3ft deep and usually encased in a 3" concrete envelope sometimes with red slurry and foil caution tape running the length of the trench above the encasement reading electrical or utility. At least that was a spec I followed on a water treatment facility where the utility was brought 100's of feet into the property before hitting the switch gear.

That's a heavy spec you're not generally going to find on you're every day run of the mill service lateral.

JAP>

 

[tortuga]

I think if you eliminated the disconnects at the post in the scenario proposed in post#1 the conductors to the building arguably would not be under the NESC anymore.

There are two types of underground service conductors, defined in art 100

1. Conductors before the meter are a 'service lateral' , maintained, sized and owned by the utility.
2. After the utility meter post or 'service point' would be 'Service entrance Conductors, underground' or 'Service conductors'

The 'Service entrance Conductors' after the meter would be under NEC, sized per NEC and inspected by AHJ.
Only the 'service lateral' would be subject to the NESC or POCO specs.
Thats what I have argued in the past anyway.

 

[jap]

I think if you eliminated the disconnects at the post in the scenario proposed in post#1 the conductors to the building arguably would not be under the NESC anymore.

There are two types of underground service conductors, defined in art 100

1. Conductors before the meter are a 'service lateral' , maintained, sized and owned by the utility.
2. After the utility meter post or 'service point' would be 'Service entrance Conductors, underground' or 'Service conductors'

The 'Service entrance Conductors' after the meter would be under NEC, sized per NEC and inspected by AHJ.
Only the 'service lateral' would be subject to the NESC or POCO specs.
Thats what I have argued in the past anyway.

I'd tend to agree.

JAP>

 

[hornetd]

It seems there is a 2020 problem with the multiple service disconnects in one enclosure --- correct ??

That is only true if the the enclosure does not have a single disconnecting means for the panel were the 2 feeder Over Current Protective Devices (OCPD) are mounted and were the supply terminals for the two service disconnecting Means are inside the same section of the enclosure.

If the supply terminals of a single main disconnecting means were in a separate section then the panel can have 2 feeder OCPDs in it.

Enclosures with separate sections for each of six Service Disconnecting Means OCPDs were the supply terminals are in a separate section from the load terminals are under development as we write. Their purpose is to recover the advantage of using 6 smaller breakers to serve 6 different buildings and/or other separated loads. Submersible or separately housed well pumps, sewage pumps, and outdoor stock watering equipment heaters are examples of other separated loads.

2 separate feeders to the same structure are allowed for certain purposes such as to supply a fire pump and some transfer switch arrangements.

Tom Horne