Why not call it EBC instead of EGC?

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kwired said:
you must know what the intended function is before you can begin to make any sense out of it
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Amen.
I don't know how many times I've run into a 3 way switch, or a starter or a ballast, or the like where I've heard "I put it back exactly like I took it apart".

If the switch or the starter or whatever has their terminals or wires labeled differently than the original it will never work like it should.

As you said, you have to understand how things operate to perform a certain function before it will ever make any sense to anyone.

I don't have to know the color of the wire or the technical name of what it's called to make it do what I need it to do.

That's why learning from experience will never be overtaken by what you ever read in a book in my opinion.

You'
 
jap said:
Amen.
I don't know how many times I've run into a 3 way switch, or a starter or a ballast, or the like where I've heard "I put it back exactly like I took it apart".

If the switch or the starter or whatever has their terminals or wires labeled differently than the original it will never work like it should.

As you said, you have to understand how things operate to perform a certain function before it will ever make any sense to anyone.

I don't have to know the color of the wire or the technical name of what it's called to make it do what I need it to do.

That's why learning from experience will never be overtaken by what you ever read in a book in my opinion.

You'
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And with learning experience people back in the day were driving ground rods at shocking pools.
 
mbrooke said:
One is not the other. Calling it "ground" only re-inforced the myth.
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Calling it ground doesn't reinforce the myth.

It simply reinforces the fact that people who were driving ground rods trying to prevent a "Shocking Pool" didn't know any better that driving a ground rod would not prevent the shocking hazard.

I don't have labels on my salt and sugar containers at home either, but, I very seldom ever having salty coffee, or sweet french fries.
except for maybe after a few late night Saturday nights that is. :)

JAP>
 
jap said:
Calling it ground doesn't reinforce the myth.
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It does, because ground does not blow a fuse or trip a breaker at 120 volts.

It simply reinforces the fact that people who were driving ground rods trying to prevent a "Shocking Pool" didn't know any better that driving a ground rod would not prevent the shocking hazard.

I don't have labels on my salt and sugar containers at home either, but, I very seldom ever having salty coffee, or sweet french fries.
except for maybe after a few late night Saturday nights that is. :)

JAP>
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But there was a lot supporting that not know better. When an apprentice asks you "if ground doesn't trip a breaker, then why do we call it grounding" what do you respond?
 
jap said:
Calling it ground doesn't reinforce the myth.

It simply reinforces the fact that people who were driving ground rods trying to prevent a "Shocking Pool" didn't know any better that driving a ground rod would not prevent the shocking hazard.

I don't have labels on my salt and sugar containers at home either, but, I very seldom ever having salty coffee, or sweet french fries.
except for maybe after a few late night Saturday nights that is. :)

JAP>
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I did, however, once try to thicken a turkey gravy with confectioner's sugar instead of flour because I didn't have my glasses on and they were in very similar containers. It was... interesting. :D
 
mbrooke said:
It does, because ground does not blow a fuse or trip a breaker at 120 volts.




But there was a lot supporting that not know better. When an apprentice asks you "if ground doesn't trip a breaker, then why do we call it grounding" what do you respond?
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Did you get asked that?
If so did you take the time to explain to him that there are instances when the ground WILL trip a breaker?

JAP>
 
ggunn said:
I did, however, once try to thicken a turkey gravy with confectioner's sugar instead of flour because I didn't have my glasses on and they were in very similar containers. It was... interesting. :D
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I'm not going to lie and say I haven't done similar things like that also.:)

Jap>
 
jap said:
Did you get asked that?
If so did you take the time to explain to him that there are instances when the ground WILL trip a breaker?

JAP>
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No point as in most cases you can not practically achieve a stable <0.25 ohms and in some climates its impossible. So we go to GFCI breakers, but GFCI breakers can fail, which is why the code forbids using earth as an EGC in the first place.

When people ask me why its called grounding, I tell them the term is technically an incorrect.
 
mbrooke said:
It does, because ground does not blow a fuse or trip a breaker at 120 volts.

But there was a lot supporting that not know better. When an apprentice asks you "if ground doesn't trip a breaker, then why do we call it grounding" what do you respond?
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Think of it like a vehicle (car, truck, etc.). One side of the battery is connected to the chassis, aka ground... and it doesn't even electrically connect to the dirt of the earth.
 
Smart $ said:
Think of it like a vehicle (car, truck, etc.). One side of the battery is connected to the chassis, aka ground... and it doesn't even electrically connect to the dirt of the earth.
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yup- and another misnomer. Chassis return, negative, common, ect all more fitting.
 
Smart $ said:
Only if you are not an electrically inclined person. :D

Also see definition 6b and 6c here: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ground
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a : an object that makes an electrical connection with the earth

b : a large conducting body (such as the earth) used as a common return for an electric circuit and as an arbitrary zero of potential

c : electric connection with a ground
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I'd go on a limb and say thats the dictionary adjusting to a misnomer. Remember that "D'oh" (from the Simpsons, a popular animated TV show) made it into the dictionary when enough people started using it.



BTW, common is definitely a misnomer for a single voltage system.
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Not if you have a switching or relay circuit.


img_wiring_valves_1.jpg
 
mbrooke said:
I'd go on a limb and say thats the dictionary adjusting to a misnomer. Remember that "D'oh" (from the Simpsons, a popular animated TV show) made it into the dictionary when enough people started using it.
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Quite likely... but I'm fairly certain it happened perhaps as long as 100 years ago, if not longer.



Not if you have a switching or relay circuit.
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Even so, there is nothing which prevents the 'other' side from being used as a common, e.g. as B+.
 
mbrooke said:
I'd go on a limb and say thats the dictionary adjusting to a misnomer. Remember that "D'oh" (from the Simpsons, a popular animated TV show) made it into the dictionary when enough people started using it.





Not if you have a switching or relay circuit.


img_wiring_valves_1.jpg
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There is a common wire for the switching scheme there, but the source is still just two wires. Unless there are polarity sensitive components you can reverse polarity from the source and it still works the same. You can ground either source lead and it still will work also.
 
mbrooke said:
yup- and another misnomer. Chassis return, negative, common, ect all more fitting.
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Though it has been fairly standard practice to connect the negative to the chassis there can be instances where positive was connected to the chassis.

I didn't call it ground, but calling it chassis can be just as confusing for some. They may think current is trying to get to chassis - which it sort of is, but they need to realize it is trying to get to the supply terminal that is bonded to the chassis and that chassis is just a conductor to complete that path. No different with "grounded" items in a premises wiring system. Difference being with those low voltage automotive systems the open circuit voltage isn't ordinarily considered much of a hazard as with systems that operate over 50 volts.
 
mbrooke said:
But why call a plane a boat or a brain a kidney? I fully understand the article itself clarifies the intended purpose, but I'd like them to make a comparison to any other industry (like medicine for example) that continues to call something by which it has nothing to do with its function or purpose.
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How about the verbs "to film" and "to tape" referring to the making of visual and auditory recordings where neither film nor tape is used? Audio recordings are still called "albums" long after the music industry moved away from vinyl first to CD's and then away from physical media altogether. And yes, I know that you can still get vinyl for some recordings.

I remember using electrical simulation software a few years ago that called component databases "decks", a term that comes from computers that used stacks (decks) of punched cards back in the 60's.
 
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