Wire abandonment
- Thread starter mcdalton
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Logan, Utah
No, 725.25 does not require abandoned class 1,2 or 3 cables installed in conduits to be removed. Cables installed in a raceway would not be considered "accessible" according to the definition of accessible (as applied to wiring methods) in the 2008 NEC.
Chris
Chris
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Chris,
Are you saying that we can't remove wire from a conduit without damaging the building?
Don
Are you saying that we can't remove wire from a conduit without damaging the building?
Conductors in conduit are accessible per this defintion.
Don
- Location
- Massachusetts
It seems odd to me that the NEC can force a person to remove anything.
stickboy1375
Senior Member
- Location
- Litchfield, CT
I'm assuming they want it removed in case of a fire ? Less smoke and toxic fumes????
- Location
- Logan, Utah
don_resqcapt19 said:
No, what I am saying is that cables installed within a conduit are permanently enclosed within the building structure or finish. The definition has two parts part one is capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish and the second is not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building. If I install cables within a conduit aren't they closed in by the building structure or finish?
Chris
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
raider1 said:
I do not see that as such. Building structure or finish means walls,etc where you cannot get to them. But --what do I know. Me a resi guy.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Chris I have to agree with Don here.
The wires in conduits are capable of being removed without damaging the building. That means they are accessible.
OR
If it was NM we had to remove and it was not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building then it would be accessible.
The wires in conduits are capable of being removed without damaging the building. That means they are accessible.
OR
If it was NM we had to remove and it was not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building then it would be accessible.
- Location
- Logan, Utah
iwire said:
I'm not following the last part of your comment.
So abandonded cables installed within conduit increases the spread of fire within a building?
I know that section 725.25 is not specific to the spread of fire but the origins of this requirment comes from the spread of fire or products of combustion. NEC 2005 800.3(C) is one example of the requirements for removal of abandoned communication cables and is specific to prevent the spread of fire or the products of combustion.
Chris
- Location
- Massachusetts
raider1 said:
I can't blame you, I was having a hard time trying to say what I think. :grin:
Back a few posts you had said ....
Chris said:
I kind of agree that it has two parts, but if we meet either one then the wiring is accessible.
The first part...
Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure
Describes many situations but in my mind it clearly applies to conductors or cables in raceways,
The second part ...
not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building.
Would apply to conductors and cables that are literally exposed, as in on the surface.
It says what it says, everything else is just noise.
- Location
- Logan, Utah
iwire said:
Yes, that is true.
I have a bad habit of trying to understand the reason for a particular code section. I hate to justify a code section by saying "cause the book says so."
But I can see where you, Don, and Dennis are comming from on the definition of accessible as applied to wiring methods.
Chris
- Location
- Massachusetts
raider1 said:
LOL :grin:
Sometimes sense just can not be made of it,:smile: in the same occupancy they are worried about the smoke load produced by cables in the ceiling, conduits etc the people are long since dead from the smoke produced by all the stuff out in the open that produces smoke.
Fire Alarm
Banned
- Location
- I'm From California
You can always leave the cables in place and tag them for future use.
- Location
- Logan, Utah
Fire Alarm said:
Correct.
As we all know fire won't burn tagged cables.
Chris
- Location
- Logan, Utah
I agree, sometimes I can't make sense of the NEC.
Chris
damaged & abandoned
damaged & abandoned
Thank all of you for this very helpful info. You have a chance to help a Katrina refugee regarding new modular home.
Typically a modular home comes in two sections. The branch circuits are installed & inspected at the factory. The homes interior is shipped w/ interior walls. The two electrical sections (left & right) are spliced together at a specific place under the house after installation. In my case the 110v branch circuits were crushed between the homes structural concrete pier and the structural flooring joist during installation of the home. New circuits were run but the crushed wires were cut off by the electrician flush with the pier & home. I can still touch the exposed wires. The home doesn't have electrical service yet so I can't test to see if energized. The contractor's states this meets all code!
My question is: what is my reference for this situation or best practice? What are your opinions of this situation.
damaged & abandoned
Thank all of you for this very helpful info. You have a chance to help a Katrina refugee regarding new modular home.
Typically a modular home comes in two sections. The branch circuits are installed & inspected at the factory. The homes interior is shipped w/ interior walls. The two electrical sections (left & right) are spliced together at a specific place under the house after installation. In my case the 110v branch circuits were crushed between the homes structural concrete pier and the structural flooring joist during installation of the home. New circuits were run but the crushed wires were cut off by the electrician flush with the pier & home. I can still touch the exposed wires. The home doesn't have electrical service yet so I can't test to see if energized. The contractor's states this meets all code!
My question is: what is my reference for this situation or best practice? What are your opinions of this situation.
- Status