Wire Nuts Old School?

[iaov]

I asked about these a whille back and I think it was Dennis who said he used them in can lights and had no problems. Since then I have done the same with dozens of cans and have experienced no problems either. I also like the Wagos for ground wires. I think if they are in an installation where they do not move and are only used with solid wire and the wire is installed properly to begin with, they are a very good connector.I don't think they are as good of a connection as a pre-twisted wire nut but a pre-twisted wire nut is probably over kill anyways, though I still do it.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

But now I'll hear that they aren't listed for grounding. :roll:

It doesn't matter...they are a listed pressure connector and 250.8(A)(1) permits any listed pressure connector to be used on a grounding conductor.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I have not used these but there is no comparison between the design of these devices and the push-in connection that is used on switches and receptacles. There is a lot more contact area and a different design spring in the connectors being discussed in this thread. I understand that they have been used for many years in Europe before they became available here. I wonder if they had any problems over there?

 

[iwire]

It doesn't matter...they are a listed pressure connector and 250.8(A)(1) permits any listed pressure connector to be used on a grounding conductor.

Interesting as when you get "Plug Mold" they specifically tell us not to use push in connectors on the EGC.

W30 Pressure-Type Wire Connector ?
For common connection of two,
three, or four No. 12 or No.14 solid
copper conductors. Not for
connection of equipment grounding
conductor. 300V maximum; 20A
60? C maximum. Not for use with
aluminum conductors.

You can see it on the bottom of page 4 of this pdf.

 

[iwire]

I have not used these but there is no comparison between the design of these devices and the push-in connection that is used on switches and receptacles.

I disagree, I think they are very similar.

There is a lot more contact area and a different design spring in the connectors being discussed in this thread.

Maybe you should use some, I have not seen any large contact area.

I understand that they have been used for many years in Europe before they became available here. I wonder if they had any problems over there?

I wonder the same thing. :smile:

 

[ultramegabob]

I have not used these but there is no comparison between the design of these devices and the push-in connection that is used on switches and receptacles. There is a lot more contact area and a different design spring in the connectors being discussed in this thread.

It could be ten years or so until we can determine if these connectors are any better than back stabbed devices, Im kinda of the opinion that under load a thin spring loaded contact over the years heating and cooling from being turned on and off is going to break down way before a twisted wirenut connection. I sure wouldnt want to jump right into a big job and use these things and find out they are not reliable connections.

 

[dan55]

been using the wagos (or ideal brands) here for I bet ten years . the original wagos were not clear so at first there were problems with not getting them pushed in all the way but other than that have not heard of any problems.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I disagree, I think they are very similar.

With the push in connections on a device, only the end of the metal used for the spring pushes against the conductor, with the Wago type the flat part of the spring pushes aganst the conductor.

Maybe you should use some, I have not seen any large contact area.

The contact area is at least double from what I can tell by looking at them. And the quality of the item appears to be much better...I have never seen a push in connection on what I would call a quality wiring device. They only exist on the 39 cent type devices...I wouldn't use that type of device anywhere.
As far as me using some, that is not likely as I rarely use a wirenut type connection.

 

[peter d]

For now, I'm comfortable using them on grounding conductors and low current applications. I'll let someone else be the guinea pig about their reliability long-term.

 

[Podagrower]

From a service perspective, they are quite handy when the previous "electrician" has left you with 2 inches of wire....from the back of the box .

 

[scwirenut]

As some of you may remember from posts a year or so ago, I have stated that I have used WAGO's exclusively for over 4 years now, I havnt twisted wire for the (Neanderthal) wirenuts since I can remember, no more carpal tunnel, no more stressing the conductors. I have used thousands with a ZERO failure rate. cans, smokes, troffers, especially switch boxes, you name it they do it. I even use the ones that accept #10 for the water heaters. the only time I ever use a wirenut is the orange ones for dead ends like fixtures, or the big blues for bigger than #10. there are over a hundred homes with these I wired and not one prob. just like any tool, you must use it properly, learn the proper install method. The same goes for backstabbing outlets, I have thousands in service, ZERO failures.

 

[ElectricianJeff]

I once did a house full of can lights that had the Wagos pre-installed in the j-boxes. OK, I thought, I'll give 'em a try. When I went back to trim, I had to spend two days pulling cans down in order to find the open connections.
Now, I know what you're thinking..... "installer error". One or two, I'd be OK with. But scores of 'em? C'mon! I had more loose connections trimming those cans out than I have the rest of my entire career.
Gimme a pouch full of tan twisters and my 9-Kliens.

Same experience here.........installed serveral dozen in a new home. As I recall 3 lights didn't work. I was the one who had to crawl through the insulated attic in the middle of the summer to fix. Now I just snip them off and wirenut them.

 

[scwirenut]

my guess is that those were Halo cans with pre-installed wagos from factory, im sure your loose connection was the tiny stranded wire from the can, not your romex, again install error but not by you, it was by the factory, when I use those cans I always check their install before I shut the door. also you can remove the can from underneath and access the j-box, no attic required......just use them on solid wire till you get the hang of them. saves me hours per house, especially smokes and switch boxes.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Color me 'old school' then. I don't care for them. To me, they're just a version of the old back-stab connectors that are on the back of resi devices, and in 2000 they changed those to not accept 12. Hmmmm. Maybe there was a reason for that. Like they aren't good connections for anything over 15 amps. But here everyone is stuffing 10s into them new-fangled Wagos.
Call me old-fashioned. (My cell phone does two things: it makes phone calls when I push the buttons, and it takes phone calls when it goes "Ringy-Dingy!". It has a green screen. No 'net connection. No email. No text messaging. And it does me juuuuuust fine!)
I once did a house full of can lights that had the Wagos pre-installed in the j-boxes. OK, I thought, I'll give 'em a try. When I went back to trim, I had to spend two days pulling cans down in order to find the open connections.
Now, I know what you're thinking..... "installer error". One or two, I'd be OK with. But scores of 'em? C'mon! I had more loose connections trimming those cans out than I have the rest of my entire career.
Gimme a pouch full of tan twisters and my 9-Kliens.

I've never used them and since I'm not in the field I don't care much one way or the other, but I kind of see what sparky's saying. Everyone talks bad about back stabbing a receptecale, but you'll use a stab in wire nut.

What would be the difference?

 

[ramsy]

Saw a solid #12 break right thru the back of a WAGO into workmates bare palm, then struck with 277vac. The WAGO adhesive was weekened by water, so not a common issue.

I agree operator competence must be considered when working with these connectors, especially when production pressure predominates the working environment.

 

[ducorse]

i have seen them burn up internally. i wish i had saved the example. basicly inside of it was smoked. i would defintely never use them except for ballasts. of course i have seen regular wirenuts burn up too... but just by the fact that the wires do not touch each other seems to be a red flag. that means that the current of the circuit goes through the connector, opposed to the wirenut where the current goes from wire to wire, the wirenut simply holds the wires togheter along with the fact that they are twisted.

additionally with twisted wires, there is a much larger contact patch. it just seems too flimsy.

 

[LarryFine]

Saw a solid #12 break right thru the back of a WAGO into workmates bare palm, then struck with 277vac.

I agree operator competence must be considered when working with these connectors, especially when production pressure predominates the working environment.

I can't hep but wonder if they're listed for energized connection.

 

[iaov]

It could be ten years or so until we can determine if these connectors are any better than back stabbed devices, Im kinda of the opinion that under load a thin spring loaded contact over the years heating and cooling from being turned on and off is going to break down way before a twisted wirenut connection. I sure wouldnt want to jump right into a big job and use these things and find out they are not reliable connections.

I think if you are getting wires hot enough to take the temper out of spring steel you have bigger problems than the type of connector you are using.:smile:

 

[ramsy]

I can't hep but wonder if they're listed for energized connection.

Doubt that would caused any pause. We were on NECA time, where nothing stops production; Working agreement prohibits that.

Some prior orientation could make WEGO's work well in production environments like these, but orientation is often placed on the same same shelf with OSHA.

Workmate was onsite Steward, demanded we both work it hot. After Steward got Zapped, I refused to continue, but now hold signs at the freeway off-ramp, "Handyman will work for food".

 

[ultramegabob]

I think if you are getting wires hot enough to take the temper out of spring steel you have bigger problems than the type of connector you are using.:smile:

personaly I dont think the wires are going to be the problem, its the thin spring steel that is spring loaded that I have concerns about becoming a weak link in the circuit and becoming hot. I have based my opinion on what I have seen with backstabbed devices, maybe these new waggles are improved, but Im not about to gamble using them on a large project when I know I get good connections with wirenuts. good luck to you guys that like using them, keep us informed on how they hold up in real world use.