wire

[growler]

If the other circuit conductors are in a cable assembly the EGC has to be as well.

they are in ser cable 150' of it. from outside they go through 2" pvc, under the house about 40' in the pvc stops and the ser continues on up into the panel, and its three conductor so I am adding a # 6 ground

For new work iwire is correct.

But I remember there used to be an exception for old work such as this (maybe local) where the EGC was allowed to run on the outside of cable assembly and wire tied to the cable. There were and are a lot of older sub panels without EGCs.

I would call the local inspectors and see what they will allow for this. They are often more permissive on old work. Tell them some idiot in Georgia mentioned it and you want to see if it will fly locally.

 

[jumper]

For new work iwire is correct.

But I remember there used to be an exception for old work such as this (maybe local) where the EGC was allowed to run on the outside of cable assembly and wire tied to the cable. There were and are a lot of older sub panels without EGCs.

I would call the local inspectors and see what they will allow for this. They are often more permissive on old work. Tell them some idiot in Georgia mentioned it and you want to see if it will fly locally.

I do not think there is an actual exception for this, but I was allowed to do the same, once and only once. I got pre-approval and absolution from the inspector ahead of time

 

[rippledipple]

UF

UF

UF cannot get installed in a properly size raceway?

No its not,direct burial

 

[roger]

UF cannot get installed in a properly size raceway?

No its not,direct burial

See all the 3XX.22 article sections

For example,

344.22 Number of Conductors.
The number of conductors
shall not exceed that permitted by the percentage fill
specified in Table 1, Chapter 9.
Cables shall be permitted to be installed where such use
is not prohibited by the respective cable articles. The number
of cables shall not exceed the allowable percentage fill
specified in Table 1, Chapter 9.

There is no such prohibition in article 340.

Roger

 

[electrofelon]

UF cannot get installed in a properly size raceway?

No its not,direct burial

????

 

[growler]

I think because it was design for free air, like uf can't go in pipe!

UF cannot get installed in a properly size raceway?

UF cannot get installed in a properly size raceway?

[/QUOTE
No its not,direct burial

Uf Cable uses permitted...For use underground, including direct buriel in the earth.

If it's for underground use and it's not direct burried what are the other options ? I'm thinking conduit.

 

[rippledipple]

UF

UF

????

I've been fail for it!!! I know uf in conduit????

 

[roger]

I've been fail for it!!! I know uf in conduit????

The person who red tagged this obviously did not know the NEC.


Roger

 

[jumper]

The person who red tagged this obviously did not know the NEC.


Roger

Yep.

 

[infinity]

I've been fail for it!!! I know uf in conduit????

A New Jersey EI failed you for installing UF cable in conduit? What code section did he cite?

 

[GoldDigger]

He could have failed for UF in conduit *inside*, yes? Unless dual rated as a controlled flame spread wire type.

Sorry, was reading UF and thinking USE....

 

[JFletcher]

340.10(4) allows UF to be installed as NM; you could wire an entire house with it if you wanted to. Also permissible in conduit. What isnt allowed is NM (romex) in raceways where that raceway would be classed a wet location, like underground.

 

[enireh]

wire

what if the feeder in its jacket is inside pvc from meter to sub panel and I add the ground wire in the same pvc? would that not be in the same jacket so to speak?

 

[enireh]

wire

For new work iwire is correct.

But I remember there used to be an exception for old work such as this (maybe local) where the EGC was allowed to run on the outside of cable assembly and wire tied to the cable. There were and are a lot of older sub panels without EGCs.

I would call the local inspectors and see what they will allow for this. They are often more permissive on old work. Tell them some idiot in Georgia mentioned it and you want to see if it will fly locally.

if installed in the same pvc isn't that the cable assembly?

 

[growler]

I do not think there is an actual exception for this, but I was allowed to do the same, once and only once. I got pre-approval and absolution from the inspector ahead of time

if installed in the same pvc isn't that the cable assembly?

I think jumper is one the right track. It must have been just a local jurisdiction that would allows that for an old work project with special permission. I know I have seen it done.

Get a ruleing from your AHJ before you do anything.

For me haveing the EGC in the same PVC would be close enough but the authorities may see it different.

 

[JFletcher]

what if the feeder in its jacket is inside pvc from meter to sub panel and I add the ground wire in the same pvc? would that not be in the same jacket so to speak?

Technically, no. The jacket covers all of the wires to make that cable assembly. It would be the same conduit, but an EGC + a cable assembly in that conduit.

 

[rippledipple]

uf

uf

Technically, no. The jacket covers all of the wires to make that cable assembly. It would be the same conduit, but an EGC + a cable assembly in that conduit.

It was a long time ago,and i didn't even argue the facts.I just assumed he wanted me to derate conductors.I remove UF and put in tw.I can understand where he was coming from,UF is 3 wires molded in its jacket,how is heat escaping in a pipe no less??

 

[electrofelon]

I just looked at some SER today and it was THWN, "superslick" (simpul knockoff) inners. Thought it was always XHHW.

This thing I looked at today was about 100' run, half underground in pipe and half through a basement. Its that age old debate about pipe the whole way vs the box/splice/hassle of changing form cable to pipe. Its tempting to be "cute" and buy SER for the whole length, and insulated EGC for the underground portion, and strip the jacket and splice just the EGC, but not sure that will save much....

 

[JFletcher]

It was a long time ago,and i didn't even argue the facts.I just assumed he wanted me to derate conductors.I remove UF and put in tw.I can understand where he was coming from,UF is 3 wires molded in its jacket,how is heat escaping in a pipe no less??

No idea why you got gigged for UF in a conduit, unless it was to wire a spa/pool (or maybe a fountain or dock); UF is not an approved 680 wiring method, and the EGC in a UF cable is jacketed but not insulated.

 

[user 100]

It was a long time ago,and i didn't even argue the facts.I just assumed he wanted me to derate conductors.I remove UF and put in tw.I can understand where he was coming from,UF is 3 wires molded in its jacket,how is heat escaping in a pipe no less??

The uf is rated for direct burial- how well does any heat dissipate through all that dirt vs. the pipe?
What about any section of uf that may have to be sleeved (in order to meet 340.12-9)?