Wiring configuration in 220v-240v countries

[SKSolar]

I live in US and we used 2 hot wires: L1 & L2 both carry 120v to create a 240V. How about those countries that using 220v to 240v ?
I read they also have a neutral . Does that mean they have a L1 & L2 and both carry 240v each ? That also means they used the L1 & L2 to get 480V?
Can someone educate me on that?

 

[LarryFine]

Their 220v to 240v is one line plus a grounded conductor, derived from a wye system, much like a single 120v line plus neutral from a 208Y/120v would be here, if we used it that way.

 

[jaggedben]

In Germany new services are 400/230 wye. Older services may be single phase 230V with only one line and one neutral from the utility wye system. I believe most of the world does something similar, probably with the single phase variety being more common in many countries. Split-phase 120/240 is pretty much a North American thing as far as I know, but used in Mexico (and farther south?). 110/220 would just be the same split phase (L1, L2, N) at lower voltage (older nominal voltage convention).

 

[ruxton.stanislaw]

Here are some photos from my apartment and ”electrodomestico” supply house in South America. It has 400Y/230 V 50 Hz 40 A service. All circuits in the premises are protected by a 30 mA RCD. The ground wire connects to the transformer neutral at the transformer disconnect.

 

[Birken Vogt]

Even in Mexico, the official supply is 127/220 split phase.

 

[tortuga]

Other places like their coffee strong and their voltage to be 230. They wont tolerate weak L-L voltages like 208 or our drip coffee.

 

[OldBroadcastTech]

Not sure where they were going, but once saw some transmitters @ Broadcast Electronics in Quincy IL that had big red stickers advising that the input power was configured for 240 / 415 V.

 

[jaggedben]

Even in Mexico, the official supply is 127/220 split phase.

So that's actually two legs and neutral of a wye system? Interesting.

 

[electrofelon]

Even in Mexico, the official supply is 127/220 split phase.

So that's actually two legs and neutral of a wye system? Interesting.

I don't think split phase is the correct term for that. ....

 

[Birken Vogt]

I don't know what the official name would be, other than 120° power.

I do it sometimes in the power gen world, to split the difference on some things.

When I called an inverter mfr about setting up 2 inverters in series to match a 208 genset, they said, oh yes, no problem, just like we do them in Mexico.

 

[ruxton.stanislaw]

99% of services in Mexico, Colombia and Venezuela are 220Y/127 V 60 Hz. Most newer apartments will have a three phase panel. Some houses have a "split phase" panel using only two of the 127V legs (this is similar to network service or MDUs in the United States and Canada). In underdeveloped areas, with construction that would not align with U.S. standards, each "structure" (shack) will have only a single phase 10, 15 or 20A breaker and neutral from the three phase network.

It is pretty rare to see, however, in rural regions and paths along highways, there may be a little baby single phase 127 volt transformer for small equipment (e.g. a billboard sign or small telecommunications equipment). Likewise, a house in the middle of nowhere can be served with a 127/254 V "split phase" transformer (exactly like 99% of houses in the United States and Canada). Any decent building will always have 220 or 254 V (the latter pretty rare) L-L available for air conditioning loads.

Brazil is an interesting mix of various services (akin to Japan, in a way). Most of the rest of South America uses 380Y/220 V 50 Hz or 400Y/230 V 50 Hz.

 

[Jraef]

I live in US and we used 2 hot wires: L1 & L2 both carry 120v to create a 240V. How about those countries that using 220v to 240v ?
I read they also have a neutral . Does that mean they have a L1 & L2 and both carry 240v each ? That also means they used the L1 & L2 to get 480V?
Can someone educate me on that?

So, with all the meandering (as per usual), do you understand what was being said?

To summarize: the way we do things here is very different from what’s done in most other countries, so the concepts for residential distribution that we understand don’t really apply outside of North America. They use 3 phase Wye distribution in the streets and their 220/230/240 Volts (depending on country and age) is derived from line to neutral. Their L-L would be 380/400/415 respectively, but in most places they don’t even bother to bring in a 2nd line, because they rarely need to. So most houses just get a Line and Neutral for incoming power and everything in the home is 220/230/240 at the wall outlets.

 

[tortuga]

Likewise, a house in the middle of nowhere can be served with a 127/254 V "split phase"

Side note, 127/254V is not standard split phase in Mexico that I am aware of, the whole point of NOM breaking with ANSI/NEMA and moving to IEC (notching up 208 5% to 220) was to be compatible IEC standards. Split phase would still be 120/240.

 

[Birken Vogt]

I have noticed in countries that use 400Y/230 distribution, they do not have transformers mounted on high poles at every house or group of houses, rather they have one large transformer and then shorter poles that distribute the 400 volt 4 wire service with neutral all up and down the street.

 

[Besoeker3]

In Europe the standard is 400/230V 50HZ. That said, many of my of of my projects were custom built.

 

[tortuga]

In Europe the standard is 400/230V 50HZ.

Were they always grounded wye?

 

[ramsy]

Here are some photos ..in South America. It has 400Y/230 V 50 Hz 40 A service.

Wire terminations w/insulated crimp appear factory installed, which explains that small wire in parallel on load side of 40A breaker.

Also notice factory use of White wire for phase leg, and Blue as Ground.

The ground wire connects to the transformer neutral at the transformer disconnect.

There's no grounding bus on that DIN rail, which would be cleaner than that cheesy tape splice job at bottom of box.

 

[David Castor]

If we were starting from the scratch, the US system would be similar to the rest of the world - 230 or 240 V and no 120 V.

 

[Birken Vogt]

If we were starting from the scratch, the US system would be similar to the rest of the world - 230 or 240 V and no 120 V.

I wonder if the up-and-coming data center 416Y/240 will someday come to commercial and residential. What with electric cars and whatnot.

But 60 Hz is still superior to 50 Hz.

 

[Jraef]

I wonder if the up-and-coming data center 416Y/240 will someday come to commercial and residential. What with electric cars and whatnot.

But 60 Hz is still superior to 50 Hz.

The only reason why the 415Y240 exists here for data centers is because they can balance out the 240V single phase power supply loading across the 3 phases. Nobody uses the 415V aspect of it for anything.