Wiring entire house with #12AWG

[nickelec]

Makes my fingers hurt just thinking about wiring a whole house with 12 solid

You get used to it if it's all you know. Think about it. If you never really used #14 then you wouldn't really know the difference.

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[peter d]

That would maybe make sense in some buildings there- NYC is full of old apartment buildings and other mu housing (long runs possible, window acs, heaters if hvac is not working, insufficient and old etc). But a complete ban for ALL housing is unnecessary imo.

You'll remember not that long ago there was a thread about a spec that reques PVC coated RMC for any exterior wiring on a public housing building in NYC. It's fair to say that NYC has an absurd amount of "make work" rules.

 

[peter d]

My own preference is to use #12 only where required.

If I have any discretion over a commercial installation, I'll use #14 there as well.

 

[user 100]

It's fair to say that NYC has an absurd amount of "make work" rules.

Sounds like it.

Wonder if they still have an outright ban on nm?

Or have they finally caught up with everybody else?

 

[nickelec]

Can use NM (Romex) only on single family homes 3 stories or smaller

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[peter d]

Can use NM (Romex) only on single family homes 3 stories or smaller

But #12 minimum there too?

 

[nickelec]

Yes you can not use #14 in NYC period unless it's for low voltage

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[peter d]

Yes you can not use #14 in NYC period unless it's for low voltage

I'm sure that rule gets violated a lot. Do they sell 14/2 NM cable at Home Depot in NYC?

 

[jeff48356]

Makes my fingers hurt just thinking about wiring a whole house with 12 solid

Mine too! As in a previous post about most circuits requiring 20A, and only the few lighting circuits don't, well, those few lighting circuits are the MOST complicated ones of all, with the greatest number of cable runs, connections, etc. So those are the few that you would WANT to run with 14AWG if allowed to do so. As for more wattage allowed on a 20A circuit versus a 15A, this is not much of an issue anymore, since lights are now all LED-based. And if such a circuit is wired with no loads other than lighting, then the circuits would never draw any more than a few amps, even when all the lights are on.

 

[nickelec]

I'm sure that rule gets violated a lot. Do they sell 14/2 NM cable at Home Depot in NYC?

It depends on where you are really. For instance alot of the new construction going on in Staten island utilizes romex so out on Staten island romex, plastic boxes are definitely easily obtained and are heavily stocked. But in Brooklyn and Manhattan home Depots are more geared to metallic materials

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[nickelec]

Most guys don't use romex as like a pride thing believe it or not sometimes I would walk into a job with another Electrical contractor​to here " o this guy used romex? He's a hack"

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[user 100]

Can use NM (Romex) only on single family homes 3 stories or smaller

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Well that isn't so bad. Bet when they did drop the ban, a lot of guys howled over that one. Why hire the guys who specialize in pipe and wire and mc (and charge more) when you can hire the the new upstarts/ nm converts and save a little $$$.

 

[petersonra]

It is possible that given there is very little difference in price between number 12 and number 14 wire when bought in bulk that the fewer circuits you might be able to run could result in a cost savings overall. It also could be that some people just standardized on number 12 just to reduce the number of Parts they have to carry around. I have also noticed that many of the panel board deals you can get only include 20 amp circuit breakers.

 

[mbrooke]

And to make things even more screwy, at one point in NYC time #14 was actually mandated for lighting circuits

 

[infinity]

Here in nyc it's a very common practice to use #12 for the whole house, in fact it's a violation to use #14 for line voltage in NYC period

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For decades receptacle circuits were only allowed to be 15 amps unless they were a SABC or an individual branch circuit. For lighting you could only use 15 amp circuits unless the lighting was 277 volts then 20 amps circuits were required. Even with the 15 amp maximum you still needed to use #12 AWG conductors.

 

[480sparky]

Here in nyc it's a very common practice to use #12 for the whole house, in fact it's a violation to use #14 for line voltage in NYC period

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I am of the opinion that any AHJ that makes such rules should be required to submit their documentation they used to make the rule to the NFPA and attach it to a Proposal.

 

[infinity]

I am of the opinion that any AHJ that makes such rules should be required to submit their documentation they used to make the rule to the NFPA and attach it to a Proposal.

Why shouldn't any particular jurisdiction, in this case NYC, be able to adopt their own electrical code without the involvement of the NFPA?

 

[nickelec]

From your mouth to God's ears

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[480sparky]

Why shouldn't any particular jurisdiction, in this case NYC, be able to adopt their own electrical code without the involvement of the NFPA?

If using 14 is safe enough for the other 99.99% of installations across the country, why do they feel compelled to require 12? What secret information are they witholding from us?

 

[mbrooke]

For decades receptacle circuits were only allowed to be 15 amps unless they were a SABC or an individual branch circuit. For lighting you could only use 15 amp circuits unless the lighting was 277 volts then 20 amps circuits were required. Even with the 15 amp maximum you still needed to use #12 AWG conductors.

Ok, never mind. It was 15 amps that was mandated, not #14. :ashamed1: But I have seen blueprints to old buildings were #14 conductors were speced to lighting circuits.