Wiring entire house with #12AWG

[infinity]

Ok, never mind. It was 15 amps that was mandated, not #14. :ashamed1: But I have seen blueprints to old buildings were #14 conductors were speced to lighting circuits.

It is possible from the earlier part of the 20th century. There was a time when they used green instead of blue as an ungrounded conductor. :jawdrop:

 

[mbrooke]

It is possible from the earlier part of the 20th century. There was a time when they used green instead of blue as an ungrounded conductor. :jawdrop:

I will make note of that. Its possible it might have had something to do with Con Edison since POCOs often use green to identify a phase conductor- so might as well keep it consistent past the service vault. Dunno, just a guess.

Regarding the #14, my understanding is that it went up until the mid to late 70s if my memory of those blueprints holds true.

 

[midamericairon]

Around my area, all of the local jurisdictions specify nothing smaller that #12 NM-B can be used in residential.


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[RLyons]

Recently leaving residential service field I prefer 12ga. This is because of all the issues I've come across due to space heaters and window air conditioners. I realize circuiting plays a part but generally that extra 5 amps makes a difference.

 

[brantmacga]

Why shouldn't any particular jurisdiction, in this case NYC, be able to adopt their own electrical code without the involvement of the NFPA?

My only gripe with this is that all locally adopted amendments should be issued with every permit, and in areas I've worked, it never happens.

In GA they're supposed to be on file with the state, and 99% of the time they are not.

I've had one major incident where a pretty nasty fight ensued with an AHJ over this (no #14 allowed); I ended up not having to make any changes because legally they couldn't force me, but I adjusted pricing on future projects to comply. That's all I ask; make sure I'm aware up-front what you want above the code.


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[jeff48356]

Recently leaving residential service field I prefer 12ga. This is because of all the issues I've come across due to space heaters and window air conditioners. I realize circuiting plays a part but generally that extra 5 amps makes a difference.

That's fine for those, because they are all plugged into receptacles, which I wire with #12 anyway. I only use #14 for lighting circuits with no receptacles on them.

 

[ptonsparky]

The journeyman I started with asked me if I would rather have 95 amps or 120 flowing thru that lamp cord when things went haywire. We installed Pushmatic and FPE back then so maybe it didn't really make any difference.

 

[kwired]

If using 14 is safe enough for the other 99.99% of installations across the country, why do they feel compelled to require 12? What secret information are they witholding from us?

While I agree with your point, why do they need to submit their reasoning to NFPA? They are not changing the NEC for anywhere but their jurisdiction, just like when any other AHJ makes amendments.

Finding out about such amendments when the inspector tells you you can't do it that way here ... I also agree there needs to be better way to get that information out - but that is a local problem wherever it happens and not NFPA's problem.

 

[growler]

I don't know where you are getting that Tn (at one time) only allowed #12 in certain areas. We have a state wide adoption and I've never seen that requirement accept on certain job specs. But certainly not from a code stand point.

ps: Like LittleBill, I've never known an area in TN that had a restriction on #14 but there may have been a local rule + some of our inspectors make their own rules

Where would I get an idea like that? It was about 1990 and I went home for the weekend to see my mother and she wanted a couple of receptacles added. I had a roll of 14/2 on the truck and some boxes and receptacles. I ran new circuits from the panel as the rest of the circuits were not grounded. So I had already ran the circuits and went to the local supply house for the 15 amp breakers.

That's when I was told that 15 amp breakers were in short supply because #14 was not allowed in that area (Monroe County, City of Madisonville). I didn't think there was anything strange about it because the City of Atlanta also didn't allow #14 at that time. I didn't change anything I installed the breakers.

There are still plenty of people that question if #14 is allowed in Atlanta. As I say, Old habbits die hard.

 

[Frank DuVal]

I used to wire all residential with 12 awg NM, except the smoke detector circuit, which I used 14-3 awg NM. It did take some calculating sometimes with the switch box fill, always bought the largest boxes for the use.

When the NM price did that BIG increase about 2004/2005, I started doing 14 awg lighting to save money, and of course AFCIs stared around the same time here, and that 14 seemed so small!

Doing lots of rework in houses that could still use window AC and space heaters, 12 awg rules. Have done many rooms with two 20 amp receptacle circuits. Now with LED lighting (lamps), solid state TVs, and central AC/Heat pumps , etc, living room, family room, bedroom circuits really have little load.